Empowering Kids in Home Management: Ashley Episode 2

Welcome to No Shame in the Home Game, the podcast that cares

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how your home feels and that looks.

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I'm Laci here with our

lovely co host, Sarah.

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Hi,

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Sara: Hi Lacey.

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Oh my gosh.

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Any day I get to hang out with you.

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It just makes my day brighter.

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So thank you for brightening my day.

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Lacey: Sarah and I essentially just

had a love fest, so you guys are really

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gonna feel that, if I had to guess.

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Sorry, We'll talk.

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Sara: Wait, wait, wait, wait.

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Love Fest.

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Love Fest sounds

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Lacey: Oh,

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Sara: we had a very bright back

and forth about things that we're

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excited about, things that are going

well and appreciating one another.

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Lacey: No, because again, and

this is so funny, Sarah and

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I have never met in person.

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I still, to this day, it makes me giggle

that, one of the dearest people in my

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life lives far away and we've never met,

but goodness gracious, she's the best.

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So this is what our conversation was.

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If you guys want to

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Sara: we learned that Lacey is a hype gal.

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And I pretty much feel hyped up.

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Like being in your presence is

just like a natural hypester?

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Lacey: I didn't realize how much

I was missing it in my life until,

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and this was going to be my, no,

we're saving it because it's what

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I'm going to be grateful for.

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Okay.

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Sara: Okay.

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Stay tuned.

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Cliffhanger.

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Lacey: but today we're heading

back to Ashley's story.

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So we're coming into part

two in Ashley's story.

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This is a month or so after

we first talked to Ashley.

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So she had some time to start to

make those tweaks in the playroom.

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Sara: Yes, in the first episode, we

narrowed down what her pain point was.

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And then once we had clarity on

that, and then it was coming up with

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structure and ideas and a little

bit of back and forth so that,

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yeah, so that she can help her kids.

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And I really was enjoying that

she was already on board with

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empowering her kids to have the power

and the choice and the decision.

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Lacey: and I really like the Ashley story

is just, we're tinkering, it's very much

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in the details and we're tinkering with

little things , to make a big impact.

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I think a lot of times when we think it,

we call this a home makeover podcast, it

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doesn't have to be extreme home makeover.

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That's not what we're doing.

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We're tinkering to get to

a better place tomorrow and

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then the next day and the next

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Sara: very much

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Lacey: All right, let's jump right in and

we'll hear what's going on with Ashley.

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Mhm.

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Sara: Thank you so much for joining

us this morning and to remind the

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listeners Ashley, we were on playroom

and the way I understood the pain

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point was you have four kids, four

different ages, four different interests.

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Sometimes they overlap, but how do you

keep going through the items playroom on

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a regular basis and making sure that the

items in there are used regularly and

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that you're pulling out The that maybe

to be there Does that sound accurate?

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Or how would you that?

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Ashley: I think it's the overarching

thing is like making sure that everything

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It's age appropriate and the big thing

is I consider it their space and their

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thing So what I would go through and

pull out is not necessarily what they

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would go through and pull out it's a

constant conversation about what we're

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using and what we're not using I really

leave it in their hands to dictate what

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they would like to have in there and

what they don't want to have in there

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Within they would like to have every toy

they've ever owned in that room There's

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think that's great because.

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I say all the time, we're teaching our

own children how to be home CEOs one day.

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And it does take a lot more effort and

time to have that conversation rather

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than be the dictator who comes in when

they're away and just trash bag gets rid

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of stuff, which every parent's done like

at a certain point, you have to, but

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it's how are you without them noticing?

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Sara: then how much

are you involving them?

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In the long run, that's great

because they're going to learn

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how to do that themselves.

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So I had you send me some pictures

playroom so I could get an idea.

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And way I was thinking about approaching

this, but This is to support you.

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you tell me if want to pivot

was I was going to categories.

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So everything in the playroom

coming up with defined categories.

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And then my thought was as a

group teaching the kids, okay,

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today we're going to focus on this

category, pulling all of that out.

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And then we'll come up with steps.

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Okay, now how do we go through

this category to make sure

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everything in here needs to stay?

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Does that make sense or do you

want to adjust that a little bit?

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Ashley: Yeah I think that's a little bit

of what we end up doing now I just just

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rearranged some of the stuff in there and

it's one of those as we go through there's

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like an element It's an element It's like

a blend of yes this is a broken toy It

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needs to go bye bye And Nobody fits in

these shoes anymore Are we still wedded

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to the idea of these shoes it's nice when

you have a whole pile of kids because then

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it's it becomes like its own voting system

where it's yes no yes no And so they get

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to sort it out that way So yeah definitely

categories and going through and just

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thinking about what we're using and what

we're not using And I think too to speak

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to the trash bagging thing like that

definitely does happen when it comes to

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garbage and things like that but I think

too the idea of my kids will panic if you

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say I'm going to go through the playroom

and throw out all the broken stuff

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So the idea of it being a conversation

about what we're using and not using

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versus a like what stays and what's goes

in the garbage takes the anticipation

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or anxiety of the process down

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lowest of it so it's just that idea of

like it being like a fluid thing and

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then having spaces other than garbage

or whatever for it to go so that they

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can own part of the moving on of that

toy So like they have a new baby cousin

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So it's is this better for him or

are we going to use this here Yeah so

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that's that's part of the conversation

the how the conversation goes when

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it comes to that like the category

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Sara: So what I heard, and this

is great because we're always

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building on what's working well.

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So it sounds like you're already

doing a big portion of this.

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You said you're already

going through items.

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You are involving kids

in the conversation.

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It's about streamlining it and making

it, like you said, a more fluid process.

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yeah because it's like right now we're

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still in that phase of ends up being

like the whole thing at once versus doing

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chunks at a time which for me is a lot and

for them is even more And so it's maybe

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working on a category category leads into

another category That's the other part too

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is you get in there and you're like all

right let's do this And then they don't

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want to or you see all those pictures

where people are like Oh I'm going to

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clean out my closet And then you pull

everything apart And you're like and now

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I need a snack And now I just have a trash

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closet

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that you brought that up because.

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I talk about threads a lot on here.

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I love reading threads because

people just do these like journal

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entries of what is not working

right now so do what you just said.

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I'm gonna go through my entire closet

or my cabinets or pick whatever.

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Track 1: And then inevitably The majority

of the people come back on and say,

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I've lost all my energy and momentum.

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Now my room is a disaster

and now I to deal with this.

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So I'm just going to shove it all back in.

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So where I'm seeing again, looking at two

ends of things, what I'm hearing is you're

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already doing it, but it's not optimized.

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not as fluid as you want it to be.

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And you're more leading it.

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And there's some emotions with the kids.

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But then I'm also hearing

that other end of Yeah.

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Sometimes I walk in and I feel like I'm

doing everything and then it's too much.

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It's finding that sweet spot in between.

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We've got those brackets okay,

we know what's over here,

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we know what's over here.

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Track 1: We want to find some place.

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in the middle.

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You brought up a great point.

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Yeah.

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If you open up that closet and you go

the whole thing, it's going be tough.

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And in the beginning, getting things

into defined categories, it's going to

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take a bit more effort, but then in the

long run, whatever schedule you come

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up with that works for your family,

whether it's, we pick a category.

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Sara: Every other weekend or we pick

two categories the first Saturday

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of the month, whatever, but once

they are a little bit more defined,

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if you come across something that

doesn't belong, Oh, this is a Lego

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and we're going through crafts.

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Just put that over in the Lego area.

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, it becomes just separating.

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Track 1: If you think I always use the

grocery store as an example, cause.

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Grocery stores need to be run very

efficiently and fluidly to maximize

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people than the shopping experience.

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If they get returns, they don't

just leave this big pile of returns.

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It's okay.

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This goes back health and beauty.

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This goes back to the cereal aisle.

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it's just recognizing that.

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And then they do go through

the shelves to organize them

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or to pull off expired items.

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And then they focus.

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that, category and if

anything's misplaced right?

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They start then organizing the sauce jars.

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They just go.

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Oh, that belongs over there.

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So as far as categories,

let's start there.

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I'm going to, we're going

back forth to get this because

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you want enough categories.

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That.

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You're not just talking about two

categories, but you don't want

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so many categories that it's too

much to manage It's overwhelming.

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So think again about the department

store, fruits and vegetables in general

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But then you have lemons and apples.

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Sara: Okay, so we're gonna go

along that first category just

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looking off the pictures reading

material I definitely saw books.

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Do you also have magazines, or

is it pretty much just books?

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No there's no magazines in no God that's

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leads to a mess The magazines are upstairs

in the girl's closet in the bucket of

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magazines It lives there it comes out

they look at things it goes in the bucket

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back in the closet There are no magazines

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Sara: the playroom.

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Okay, so for reading material

playroom, just books.

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It's just books yeah and it's

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books that are more geared

towards the younger two kids

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Sara: So the older kids actually

keep their books in their rooms

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or in a more common space.

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Upstairs we have they each

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have bookshelves in their rooms

and that's more of their thing

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That's great that you already

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have a flow for the books.

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and and so you do decide to go

through the reading category in the

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playroom, you actually know you only

have to think about the younger kids.

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Remind me in the audience,

the ages of the kids.

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my older two just had birthdays

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so they are now 11 and 9 and then

my younger two have birthdays

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coming up but they are currently 5

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Next was, I saw a lot of art.

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I was thinking actually having art

as category and crafts as a separate

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category, or do you feel like art

and crafts should go together?

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art and crafts are separate for me and

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just the way that I think about them so

anything that they can do independently

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like stickers coloring Anything that is

not paint it's not jewelry making it's not

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putty it's not Play Doh it's not something

that's going to stain or spill or whatever

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that is available to them all the time

So it's within reach of them The jewelry

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making The Play Doh the paints in the

basement because paint is in the basement

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Sara: because mama has four kids and

she knows paint stays in the basement.

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Paint stays in the basement it's just

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one of those things that I'm like

you know what paint good on you but

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you're going downstairs And so any

of those things that have the small

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pieces or they need tools for or

anything like that Those are up high

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Sara: That's great.

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And that's what I was noticing was

I felt like the desk was stickers,

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paper, pencils, always out.

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And then I did notice

in the closet crafts.

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Yeah.

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Cause to me crafts are more involved.

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There's a lot, like you

said, a lot more pieces.

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the art category, pens, markers,

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stickers, coloring, paper, what else

would you put in the art category?

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they have those scratch papers

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there's stencils there is those like

the sticker books where like you can

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peel the sticker off and put back

on those like the those big Melissa

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and Doug ones And there's no glitter

in my house You don't need a glitter

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category because I Can't stand glitter

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Track 1: Oh my goodness.

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So many people listening are gonna

be like, yep, that's a good rule.

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No glitter in the house.

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My kids go to other kids houses and

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they come back and they're like they

have glitter And I'm like I love that

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them so much And you can go play there

whenever you want I feel no pressure to

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bring glitter into my house because your

friend has 82 colors of glitter . You

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don't need it here because has all it.

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That's what makes it special.

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When you go over to your friend's

house, that's where the glitter happens.

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Sara: I feel like you've already

done so much heavy lifting as far as

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thoughtfulness about this, so we're like

halfway down the runway with this crafts.

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I like the way you defined that.

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Things with small parts, things

that can stain and spill.

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jewelry, paint, what else would, what

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other crafts are done in your house

that you have on a regular basis?

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A lot of these cat the categories of

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having things up in the closet came about

because of choking and small pieces and

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all that stuff And I don't have that

anymore but it's just still seems to make

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sense yeah the ones that are up in there

that don't come down without an adult

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are Plato like any sort of like silly

putty or slime or anything like that

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because that gets done in the kitchen

because we have a like an old table in

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there that I don't care I don't care if

they paint the table so it's just a mat

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and like the floor there's no carpet in

the kitchen So my deal with Plato is I

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am one of those people that grew up with

the Play Doh doesn't mix it's a thing I'm

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waiting for this article to be written

I'm waiting for this to come out But

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there are people that grew up with Play

Doh that just smash it all together And

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then there's people that grew up with

Play Doh and like when the colors start

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to mix together it's thank you No thank

you I'm done This is no longer fun for me

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And as an OT Love Play Doh Love Play Doh

Fine motor like coordination prehension

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all of these things but the cleanup and

the and all of that of Play Doh so honest

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to God I buy the little tiny Play Doh

containers My kids pull it apart it gets

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stuck in the things and I just leave

it And it dries and I sweep it up and I

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put it in the garbage Because I cannot

stand 18 containers of brown Play Doh

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So that's just but we do the small ones

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these like memories in my body.

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The body a score that

know existed inside of me.

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The thought of mixing Play Doh

colors is such, I get such a

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strong visceral reaction to that.

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When my son would play with Play

Doh, I had to walk away because

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I couldn't stand the idea of

putting different colors together.

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I'm like, no, keep the colors separate.

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Laci, are you a color mixer?

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don't like rules.

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My is to keep them separate for as long

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as possible But then at a certain point

it's let's do But you're right I don't

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want to keep it if it's mixed together

It has lost a level of value for I'm

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trying to think back to when I was a What

I did because you're like So I was a lot

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younger than my siblings So I played with

Play Doh by myself And I remember playing

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with Play Doh in the context of a kit

Like I do you remember the barber shop

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where you like the hair would grow That's

what my brain goes to And so that has

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nothing to do with the mixing of colors

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I am a middle person I know that

you're like there's half and a half

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I'm a little bit in the middle there

the brown Play Doh has a place for a

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little while but then it's got to go

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Yeah then it's got to go And it's also too

like with little kids like they they're

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on to the next thing and you're like Oh

I'm going to go clean up the Play Doh

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and then you go back and you're like Oh

half the Play Doh's dried And it's just

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I'm just going to leave the other half

and that's why I get the little ones not

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like the little party packed tubs But I

remember watching commercials as a kid

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for Play Doh and being and they like

push the thing and the ice cream comes

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down I'm like how do you separate that

You can only do that once you make this

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thing And of course you're like four too

So you can't make it look like the 35

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year old who's doing the demo and the

picture And I was like man never going to

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have the perfect Play Doh ice cream cone

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realized this, Play Doh is the

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perfect gift for people who don't

have kids, who have never had kids.

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They see Play in the store and this

is the best gift to give a kid.

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Parents who see Play Doh in the

store are like, nope, no thank you.

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Walk on by.

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Bye.

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It's such a great in concept and like

with glitter, it's awesome at daycare

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and school and somebody else's house.

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someone else's house like I always say

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you like my worst enemy I would mail

them glitter that would be like happy

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birthday Here's 82 kinds of glitter

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I don't buy glitter but at Christmas

about 50 percent of my decorations have

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And then you find glitter throughout

the year and it's oh joy so I'm

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like but glitter does have place but

glitter but that's good glitter right

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I think I'm also starting to realize there

is you can't be agnostic to glitter I feel

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like you will have an opinion about I want

to ask people about their relationship

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I feel pole coming on.

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I love this.

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You be agnostic about

glitter is the best sentence.

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Mhm.

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Mhm.

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I'm going to take this road back to

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categories of items in your toy room.

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Crafts, I feel like we've got handle on.

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Next category, I was thinking of calling

one active play, which I was thinking

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of the, the nerf, the play kitchen.

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Sara: I saw some things in there.

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I thought they were like right

upon toys, physically actively

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be using your whole body.

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Does that make sense as a category to you?

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We have a chalkboard in there so

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all the riding wheeled objects

they get parked over there

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not seeing as far as, large active play?

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And I actually, I have dress up

as a separate category because

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there is so much of that.

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But is there anything else that

is like a movement toy item?

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We have the big foam blocks

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that you can jump on and stuff

like that those are tucked

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Sara: So you do have big foam

blocks that they jump into?

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Are they in the playroom?

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they can no they can climb on them

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So there's ones that are it's like

a wedge and a on a cylinder and they

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make a little they can make a course

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Sara: what do you call,

so what do you call those?

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like almost in the gymnastics realm

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yeah and then we have big like the

big PAW Patrol vehicles that's the

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only other like big piece of equipment

pieces of equipment that take up floor

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space They have no parking garage No

thing that swirls out of the floor

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Sara: No, no magic.

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No magical storage.

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Oh Ryder Ryder doesn't show up at my house

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Sara: Okay.

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So active play.

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I was going to do a building

category, blocks and Legos.

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yeah they have like a one that's runs

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with a screwdriver and then they have

the interconnecting blocks and the

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magnet tiles and there's a lot of

there's a lot of building construction

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Sara: Okay.

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And then dress up.

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I feel like it's its own category

like I want to come play at

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your house, to be honest.

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There's so much dress up.

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I love it.

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So you've got costumes.

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Do you also have like hats and shoes?

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Yeah did I send you is the is there a

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dresser in that picture that I sent you

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Sara: No.

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It's like a pine box That's the we use

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that as a dress up trunk forever And I'm

fairly slash a hundred percent certain

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that when I was taking these pictures I

was like what would be better We had this

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upstairs We have this dresser And then

I brought the dresser downstairs so now

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there's a drawer for like hats and there's

a drawer for like the smaller pieces

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because what was happening is they opened

the box They dump everything in the box

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and they're like look mom the playroom's

clean and I'm like why are there 18

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different things from the kitchen section

nestled on top and like why is there a

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giant paw patrol vehicle stuck in this

thing like so it was becoming the black

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hole of playroom cleanliness and I have

eliminated that much to the chagrin of

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my children but now they have drawers so

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Sara: we all, I love that lens of, I can't

even say kids and adults because honestly

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I know adults who pick up that way too.

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So it's just the different

lens that we all hold.

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And then I did see some.

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games.

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Now you had mentioned you keep a lot

of games not in the playroom because

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of little pieces, but there are

some games in the closet, correct?

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Yeah so games are usually in the living

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room We have like a built in cabinet and

they're there Games and puzzles exist

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Sara: And then I saw what I'm calling

discovery projects, which are one time

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exploration kits that you don't do over

and over like those science discovery.

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. So everything we just talked about,

do you feel as though there's

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something that I didn't touch on?

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Cause I can't see

everything in the pictures.

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I don't think so yeah no cause we have

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the kitchen stuff is that's all contained

too So that's the only other angle of

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that room and they can Take care of that

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Sara: So we have the categories and you

have a pretty good handle on things.

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It's how do we integrate

the kids into this process?

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So it's a little bit more seamless.

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can you think of, cause I'm not

in your house, so I don't know

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your weekly routine and with four

kids, you have a lot going on.

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Is there any sort of

rhythm to your week with.

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Picking up or cleaning or chore time

or is there anything we can anchor

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this Process to that's already

happening naturally in your house.

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sure Yeah Sunday morning is like sheets

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get changed rooms get picked up We like

do a whole reset for the week Yes I

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love a good routine It's how I survive

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full circle I do believe you called me

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and you twin flames at one point because

we are very similar with how much We

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think about things and as you were saying

that I was like you use the term reset.

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I love the term reset,

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Track 1: Sunday morning, sheets,

room pickup, reset for the week.

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How do you feel like that's

on an automatic pilot?

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Everyone knows what they're doing.

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And by it knows what they're doing

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I mean every Sunday we have the same

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discussion if you will about That was

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to be my question too yeah no it's I just

I like when I talk about these things and

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people are like oh my god that's amazing

your kids just thing and I'm like no I

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just mean we scheduled this disagreement

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Sara: We scheduled this.

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I call it resetting They call it my hands

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don't work between the hours of 9 and 11

on Sunday morning And then we all just

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re we circle back around lunchtime and

carry on with the week But yeah it's

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it is that you said that Because a lot

of people would hear that and think Oh

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my gosh I'm inadequate our participant

Sarah last season was like when people

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say this is how I do things she assumes

they do it that way 100 percent of the

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time And it's no that's not what it

actually looks like so having a view into

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what it actually looks like is so and

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yeah

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and kudos to you for having

that fight every because I

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every week and every week guys we're

going to do this next week seven days

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mark your calendar and I'm just the hope

is that will feel less like nails on a

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chalkboard if the inevitability of this

process just continues and continues

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it's like brushing your teeth right I'm

like okay we have you have to brush your

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teeth And then it became about I don't

want to brush my teeth And now I just

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say just brush the ones you want to keep

And they're like what do you mean And I'm

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like just brush the ones you you don't

brush them they're you're setting yourself

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things And that's fine It's your choice

But these like your adult teeth So just

435

brush the ones you want to keep And then

they're like I don't want to lose my teeth

436

Track 1: You just have to find the right

motivation on your note about, this

437

is back to participants, Sarah, about

we're doing this again in seven days.

438

She was, we were incorporating her

kids dishwasher process because Sarah

439

has some, chronic health conditions

that make it really difficult for her

440

and she was having her daughter, her

older daughter, teenager at the time.

441

And.

442

She explained to them,

this is how you do it.

443

And they did it.

444

And then the next day,

okay, dishwasher time.

445

And her daughter very loudly and

indignantly was like, I just did that.

446

Don't tell me I have to do it again.

447

And she was like, Oh, I'm sorry.

448

I didn't explain this correctly.

449

We run the every day.

450

is not a one and done thing.

451

did you not know you use dishes every day?

452

This is the other side of the coin.

453

Yeah on that note do have to share my

454

daughter Iris is potty and are time

around I'm like I'm making it as easy as

455

myself as possible We're setting timers

You're going to go cause she would just

456

pee all the time I think that's just how

she her in the mindset of stop and so

457

every time the timer goes off she's Oh

again Oh girl stop Stop Yes you are going

458

to have to get up and go all every day

of your life I'm sorry to keep bringing

459

this to you Oh I have and my kids too

it's I don't want to And I'm like if

460

you don't pee then I have to take you

to the hospital And then they give you

461

a catheter And they're like what's a

catheter And I'm like and then we just

462

go down this rabbit hole and they're like

463

I will go pee And I'm like much

much more pleasant alternative

464

They're like alternatives

465

466

to this probably talking with

participants there about how I feel as

467

though being an adult versus being a

kid is just understanding consequences.

468

Like you said, if you don't brush

your teeth, you lose your teeth.

469

What teeth do you want?

470

If you don't go to the bathroom, get a

UTI, you have to get, or you catheter.

471

Sara: It's just kids think we're

nags because we know what they want.

472

The thing is, and I've said so

many times, okay, it's Sunday

473

night, there's a snowstorm.

474

I do not want to go to the emergency room.

475

don't do whatever you're about to do.

476

That might end up us having

to go get your arm in a cast.

477

I was just like, no, like

I can see the future.

478

Don't jump off of that right now.

479

wait until they've shoveled

480

just, it's so I just feel like

481

that's all are as parents is going.

482

No, I see the future.

483

I'm telling you, if you don't

do a, then B is going to happen.

484

So back to these kids that we love

so much Sunday morning, nine to 11.

485

Ideally, so when you're putting in

a new plan in place, there's always,

486

and this as an OT, there's always

that initial, it takes a lot, but a

487

lot more, but then the idea is that

it's going to be easier down the road.

488

Sara: So getting to this new

routine with the playroom.

489

To encourage your kids

to really be the process.

490

It is going to be a little bit more

in the beginning, but again, that

491

thought is it becomes just part of

that nine to 11 and you're just adding

492

in 10, 10 minutes, five minutes.

493

it can be whatever chunk feels

doable and going off of our home CEO

494

process, and that is having a group

discussion about why this is important.

495

Again, going back to

the brushing the teeth.

496

Yeah, you do it so you

don't lose your teeth.

497

And if you lose your teeth,

then you can't eat yummy food.

498

do you want everything to be a milkshake?

499

So talking with your kids.

500

Do you enjoy the playroom?

501

the playroom is something special, but

it needs time and energy to maintain it.

502

And if do you like getting new

things for Christmas and birthdays,

503

okay, then things have to go out.

504

So new things can come in and just

talking about how this is just a

505

process of life, like letting go of old.

506

So new can come in.

507

And like you said, you have a new little

cousin, like how fun is that to share

508

things that you're no longer using.

509

And somebody else, and you talked in

our first meeting about giving things

510

to, the preschool , oh my gosh, how

cool, you know how much you loved this

511

item and now somebody else can love it.

512

So having that discussion about

why we're doing the process.

513

Instead of, I think sometimes as

parents, we come down and it's we're

514

those dictators and they're just like,

they're just telling me to do it.

515

So I'm just going to say, I don't want

to do it because they're telling me

516

it's just that immediate pushback.

517

But if you have this talk and if you say,

if we all participate and we're all on

518

the same page and you understand why we're

doing it, this can go really quickly.

519

So you decide how much time do

you want to put towards this?

520

Because buckle up.

521

It's happening.

522

or mom comes in with the trash bag.

523

And then that's the painful, like

show them the different paths.

524

This is the path of least

resistance, actually.

525

It's just going to take a new mindset.

526

So how does that feel?

527

Having a family discussion

about the playroom is for you.

528

And that means taking a

little bit of ownership.

529

Yeah like I have found the most success

530

when it comes to conversations around the

playroom with Okay so here's the thing

531

that you seem to be interested in doing

right now right this is your activity of

532

choice How can you set it up in here So

that when you want to come and do this

533

it's easier for my older kids And it's

like how do you want to be able to do

534

the things that you want to be able to

do and not have to go in and move all

535

this stuff aside can you clean up the

desk area so that when you want to come

536

in and do a coloring project that you're

not putting the book on top of like piles

537

of stuff and framing it in the way that

let's think about what's going to happen

538

down the road so that you right now can

do a little bit so that then so that the

539

next time you walk into the playroom and

you want to do that because you know we

540

do get into not rut but like you do like

my kids get into sometimes they'll color

541

that will be their activity that they do

whenever they're in there Like I walked

542

by and someone sitting at the desk and

all that And it's you seem to be really

543

into coloring right now How can we move

this around on the desk space so that

544

you're able to reach all the things you

want to and have space to do this and like

545

optimally function And that does seem to

help individually speaking Cause there

546

is a little bit of once it becomes like

a group thing it's I want this and you

547

want this and you want this and you want

this and I'm like okay we all want a play

548

space How about you not necessarily like

state claim in real estate but if you're

549

doing this where do you want to do this

If you're interested in this where do

550

you want to do this And trying to go with

their interests To have them facilitate

551

how they want that to go Cause they they

will like they'll go in and dump all the

552

blocks out And then they want to play

with something I'm like you just have to

553

pick up the blocks It might take them two

days But if you don't pick up the blocks

554

then you don't have the place to play

with the thing And eventually they're

555

like nah blocks But yeah just trying to

go just trying to go off of what they're

556

putting out there as their interest and

not being wedded to like the here and

557

now of it the playroom needs to be clean

at 11 a m on Sunday is like not the hell

558

that I'm ever going to die on because all

it does is all it is conflict And I feel

559

like too like that's when you get into

that idea of I'm going to come in here

560

and throw all these things out and all

that And then it takes on a tone or like

561

a connotation that doesn't fit with the

overall goal like you can either have you

562

can either have it clean on a timeline

or you can have them have responsibility

563

Sara: and that's beautiful.

564

And yes, I like that you made that

distinguishing factor because when

565

I was envisioning this process, I

was never picturing this perfectly

566

picked up playroom being reset.

567

Like you said, it's about getting rid

of those items that aren't being used

568

so that the items are being turned over.

569

And yeah, you don't want to fight.

570

About what it looks like, but

you want a flow for the room so

571

that it is, there's a process.

572

And so that nine to 11 time on

Sunday morning, yeah, I was not

573

envisioning this like pickup.

574

I was envisioning, okay, let's pick one

category and you pull out, let's say,

575

and you wouldn't have to do this very

often, but let's just say dress up.

576

You don't even have to pull

out all the dress up item.

577

You could just pull out the hats.

578

Just lay out.

579

If you have 10 hats, you lay them all out.

580

You stand there, you all look at them

and you say, are any of these broken?

581

Pull those out.

582

Are there any hats in here

that you don't like anymore

583

that we could give to somebody?

584

Pull those out.

585

And if you've done that, you don't

have to do that again for what, a year?

586

But then the next week you

just pull out the shoes.

587

Oh, we've never found the

right shoe to this left shoe.

588

Okay.

589

Is it about time we get rid of

it and making it really bite size

590

and just it being five minutes

and they just get to, Oh, okay.

591

This is going to be really

small, really doable.

592

And we're doing this.

593

Oh, if I see a new pair of dress up

shoes that I want for my birthday.

594

Oh, we'll have space now because we got

rid of the ones that don't fit anymore.

595

Does that make sense

as more of an approach?

596

yeah I definitely think that's like

597

the way to go in terms of wanting to

incorporate them into it giving them

598

ownership of it but also like When that

happens I think too like we forget that

599

in order to give them ownership you

have to give up ownership And like the

600

ownership on the parent half or side

of it is something that like we can't

601

tell our kids that we want them to do

more and still and not step back to

602

give them the opportunity to do more

603

I really can I just you making it a

script that they follow step by step of

604

a set of has blown my mind a little bit

because then I'm like then they can apply

605

that anytime too And so you're teaching

them a process of how to over and over

606

again So I just now I'm like Maybe I

need to do this with my kids at night

607

to ask okay is there anything that needs

to be thrown away Is there anything put

608

away Is there anything that you don't

need In an area You know what I mean And

609

and then they can start to internalize

that step process to make it easier

610

because they're not creating the pathway

611

Sara: yeah, to piggyback off of a couple

of different thoughts, absolutely what

612

you said, Lacey, because as we said with

home CEO, it's this framework that you can

613

then So the idea is, yeah, at some point

your kids get to do this on their own and

614

they can just, Oh, look at these books.

615

Oh, I don't read this one anymore.

616

And it becomes I was going to say

it's easy brushing your teeth, but

617

we've already established that's

not always easy in your household.

618

But yes, the idea is that it

is so simple and so doable.

619

It just becomes this

like ingrained process.

620

And I also like that you're

touching on the greater

621

Track 1: mindset of this, where if

you're going to give your kids ownership,

622

you're also giving up ownership.

623

And I a hundred percent agree with you.

624

And I love that you brought that up.

625

And I'd say yes.

626

and as the person whose name is on the

mortgage of the house, you also get to put

627

up bumpers of, yeah, you have ownership

over this playroom and the closet is

628

full so we can not receive any more new.

629

crafts, unless you decide which

ones are no longer important, right?

630

You give them ownership.

631

you've got four kids, you already know

this, you're giving them parameters

632

that they have ownership within.

633

And so the playroom is yours and I'm

saying that we need to spend five

634

minutes on Sunday to go through each

category so that we can get rid of

635

all those markers that are actually

dried out and are just taking up space

636

and you get frustrated when you go to

find a marker and they're dried out.

637

Let's take five minutes.

638

Everybody get a piece of paper.

639

Let's test the markers

and let's toss the ones.

640

but it's five, but it's five minutes

and you're not telling them we're

641

going through all the art supplies.

642

You're saying, how frustrating is it

when you can't find a marker that works?

643

All right, let's get rid of these.

644

Sara: Oh my gosh, look at that.

645

I just realized we only

have three working markers.

646

Looks like the next time markers are

on sale, I'm going to pick some up

647

because I just realized they're all dry.

648

You know what I mean?

649

So it's just getting them in that mindset.

650

And this is something I find so crucial.

651

I'm going to stand on a little pedestal

and just say, we need to learn.

652

Track 1: Everyone, how to process items.

653

We do not keep on, we do not hold

on to everything forever, right?

654

Some Tupperware is going to no

longer serve your needs or the lid

655

is cracked or it's thrown away.

656

You need to process that,

whether it's throwing it away,

657

recycling it, donating it.

658

But we need to get used to that.

659

660

If I'm going to buy new clothes,

I need to get rid of some clothes.

661

Because my closet is full and I work with

a lot of people who never learned that.

662

So teaching them as adults.

663

And that's why I'm so hell bent

on teaching children because when

664

they have their own apartment or

house, this is the processing.

665

Track 1: I just said this at home.

666

CEO processing is boring.

667

It just do five minutes of boring.

668

So you don't have days and

days of pain in your future.

669

So yeah, I love, I feel like you,

you're already there and I just feel

670

like it's finding that, that point

between giving them ownership, but

671

still making sure things are happening.

672

Sara: Cause like you said, you

have to explain to them every

673

Sunday morning that we are changing

sheets and we are resetting.

674

So it's just giving them that

prompt and helping them learn it.

675

how does that feel?

676

A five minute pick one part of

a category, Let's go through

677

this and it's just picking out.

678

I always say three parts.

679

Absolute.

680

Yes.

681

We're keeping it Absolute.

682

No, we don't need to keep it and I'm

not sure and the absolute knows You're

683

the mom you can figure out where the

nose go whether that's trash passing

684

on recycling and then the I don't

knows you can decide as a family

685

how you approach the I'm not sure's

686

Yeah Yeah I think yeah definitely keeping

687

it not low anxiety but not having it

be such a thing or having such strong

688

Opposing forces like we keep everything

or we keep nothing or it's like it's

689

not a little bit it's everything

somewhere finding that space in

690

growing up, Valentine's day was little

691

paper cards that you put in a shoe box.

692

Now, Halloween, Valentine's,

everything has become this lots of

693

stuff, So he comes home with his.

694

Valentine's stuff and it just sits

there and I let it be fun for a

695

day or two of Oh, it's fun to rifle

through it and re see everything.

696

Sara: And once that's worn off and

then, yeah, I just took the onus to

697

dump it all out because I wanted it

to be not on the counter anymore.

698

I just dumped it all out.

699

I put The category of, I put

all the food items, treats.

700

I put all the like pencils, erasers,

and then I put all the papers, like the

701

cards, and then I just broke it down.

702

We looked at the cards.

703

Do you want to keep any of these

cards from your classmates?

704

Nope.

705

Okay.

706

Go put them in the recycle.

707

Okay.

708

Here's all the pencils and erasers and

I don't know, whatever little games.

709

Rings

710

Sara: Do you want any of these?

711

I think you picked out one or two.

712

Okay, great.

713

And then I took the rest and

I'm going to donate those.

714

And then the food was left.

715

And I knew he was going to keep most

of the treats, but I just said, are

716

there any streets that you don't want?

717

Put those in a pile.

718

So I took the bag, I broke it up

into three and we went through

719

each category one at a time.

720

And honestly, he's so used to

me doing it this way now that

721

there's no hemming and hawing.

722

It's just, do you want

it or do you not want it?

723

If you want it, that's fine.

724

But then you have to pick it

up and you have to go put it in

725

the toy room where it belongs.

726

I'm not doing that.

727

I want him to feel the

weight of the items.

728

Okay.

729

The gum that you're keeping, you

physically need to pick that up

730

and go put that in your gum bin.

731

So I'm not processing it.

732

I'm simply facilitating the processing.

733

And yeah like that and that's kids

734

have to they need a small step to start

735

I do have a question my son is the most

ever met in and but I'll never forget a

736

corner and I was like okay I got to throw

this away And he was like but That's the

737

corner of this piece of paper and you

would have thought that I diamonds And so

738

I as we're talking through this I'm like

Isaac And I know it's a muscle getting

739

him used to it But I don't know how to

overcome this step of having him not

740

think everything is the most important

741

I give you offer a suggestion?

742

Okay.

743

might be helpful to people listening.

744

Things have a lot of power in the moment.

745

And the more you put up that

we're this away, the more,

746

like all raising the stakes.

747

It just becomes, now more important to me.

748

Track 1: When things are allowed to

sit out of sight, out of mind, that

749

emotional attachment with a corner of

a piece of paper usually diminishes.

750

So what you can do is allow

him to have a memento box.

751

And you can decide, is it a shoe box?

752

Is it the size of, like a bank box?

753

You get to decide.

754

And he keeps that someplace

that's accessible.

755

And if he says this corner of this paper

means the world to me, that's great.

756

Put it in your memento box.

757

And when that memento gets full, the

stuff on the bottom, you're going

758

to sit down and the processing is

boring, but this is part of life

759

and it's going to help him later.

760

And I am telling you when he is six

months older, he's going to be like,

761

I don't even know what that is.

762

And there might be, he might

remember one out of 20 of the items.

763

Great.

764

Get rid of the 19 and he can keep the one.

765

I just don't think, and

everyone's not the same.

766

I don't think that all those

items are going to keep the same.

767

Wait, but I'd be curious,

Ashley, because you have four

768

kids, you must go through this.

769

bring home every piece of artwork and

770

say, this most important thing to me.

771

How do you approach that,

that sentimental journey?

772

Yeah I will say one of my boys is very

773

like he's very much like that like

everything is the most And he has a box

774

upstairs and I'm like you put it in there

and then every once in a while we'll go

775

through it and I'll ask him about the

things and he's Okay I don't I don't know

776

what that is or in full transparency he

remembers 99 percent of the stuff However

777

because it has been there and it is the

thing he will move on his own from it I

778

think as far as having the opportunity

to say this is mine and it's precious to

779

me and being able to put it in that space

means that When it comes time to going

780

through things there is no it's not black

and white And so he has a space where

781

things can go in order to keep them I do

have an astronomical amount of Paperwork

782

and artwork and things like that come

through I have for my oldest is about to

783

finish elementary school and there is a

company that you can send artwork to and

784

get books made of it I know people that

do it like by grade or that do it by all

785

of that And I'm like that's it's so much

stuff And there really are projects that

786

she's done that really stand out And so

taking all of those projects and sending

787

them be put into a book so that all the

projects still exist Some of the things

788

I will keep like in their original form

but that process is like going through

789

with her saying what are some of these

pieces that you remember And that for her

790

cause art is really her her thing over

like toys and stuff like that So having

791

her be a part of that process but also

not having it go forever because she'll

792

have the pictures of it And it'll be a

book which means that this much stuff will

793

turn into a book and then that can go in

her room and she can look at it whenever

794

So it's just finding ways to meet them

where they're at when it comes to whatever

795

that thing is Cause everyone has their

thing we have our own thing as adults too

796

Track 1: Another idea I just remembered,

I helped my sister, she's got four kids

797

as well, and each child has a bin,, so

two of them are in college, one of them

798

is graduating from high school this year,

and it is that K through 12 experience.

799

Because when they get a little bit

older, then they're on their own a

800

little bit more, but I think what she

did as I was going through helping her

801

organize it was, so imagine you have a

box for each kid for the school year.

802

And then at the end of the school year,

you go through that box and then you

803

pick out 10 items that reflect that year.

804

So if you have a hundred drawings of

a car when they're in first grade,

805

okay, let's pick out the one car

that represents these hundred, right?

806

So then she had for each

year, just a small handful of

807

the first paper you wrote so keeping

808

it and then whittling it down.

809

Same sort of process,

different ways to go about it.

810

But does that sound like a solution, Lacy,

for Isaac to give him an area, give him

811

the opportunity, but then as the adult,

you're like, it has to fit within this

812

I also think he will like the process

813

honestly like looking and talking about

it I thought I was sensitive but he

814

blows me out of the water I think he

actually might like the process we talk

815

We had a little like treasure box

like an actual like pirate treasure

816

box from a birthday party And so for

a long time that was like the box

817

that he used he was really young And

it's just it's just it's nice Like

818

they need their own space Yeah own

819

Track 1: I can also show you the side

of the coin, which is that there were

820

three kids in my family and my mom

was the sentimental one, and I can't

821

even explain to you the number of

boxes of items, every band concert.

822

Every single school play, so then we

were asked to go through our boxes,

823

even though we didn't save the stuff.

824

physically had to touch every item

825

and I'm like, , I don't recall this,

or I'd look at something and I'm

826

like, none of our names are on this.

827

Like, why is this, it's from my elementary

school, lunch menus from first grade.

828

so I had touch so much.

829

I had to process such an enormous volume

that when it came to me saving things

830

for my kid, I actually went the other

way and I was like, I'm throwing up.

831

Track 1: Everything away.

832

And then my husband's like,

where's that hat that he wore

833

when he phoned from the hospital?

834

And I was like, I don't want to

keep everything so I had to actually

835

learn I had over corrected and I was

like, Oh, there is a happy middle

836

ground between keeping everything

and throwing everything away.

837

Sara: The extremes and then finding that

reasonable center that works for everyone.

838

Yeah There's a book

839

called the gentle art of

840

Track 1: Yes, I've seen it.

841

I've seen it.

842

I love

843

Yeah

844

And it's all about you as the adult It

is your responsibility to go through

845

and process your own stuff So that you

don't pass that on to your children to

846

do And it's I remember when I bought

the book my husband was like Really was

847

like, no, it's just, Cause when I was

working with, when I was working with

848

people at home and aging in place, like

this would come up all the time because

849

you're talking about people need to be

able to get around in their house and

850

be safe, but they have all this stuff.

851

And it's okay, we have to go

through this stuff order to

852

create the space that you need.

853

Ashley: To be able to move in your house

because right now it's not about memories.

854

It's about mobility.

855

And so how do we facilitate that

conversation for the person who's

856

holding those memories, the people

that are like, just throw this

857

stuff out and like, where's the

858

middle

859

Back to why this work is important,

860

your kids how to do that process.

861

So that you don't get to that aging in

place You've never gotten rid of anything

862

and now it becomes this emotional upheaval

So wrap this all up because I feel like

863

we've covered a lot of great ground.

864

Track 1: I Feel as though the departing

Goals for you are to talk with your

865

four kids talk as a family about the

playroom importance of processing Talking

866

about, we're going to make this a bite

size, five minutes that we're going to

867

integrate into our Sunday morning reset

and it's why it's important and having

868

them have a voice in the Does that sound

like we're moving in the right direction?

869

Sound doable?

870

Okay.

871

Yeah.

872

Track 1: Okay.

873

I'm going to send you, I'm going to

send you some notes that we talked

874

about, as just something to reference.

875

And then please let me know in

between, like, how does it go?

876

What's the conversation like?

877

and remember, it's not about

nailing it the first time.

878

It's about trying something, seeing what

parts of it work and what parts don't.

879

And then we can adjust.

880

Sound good?

881

Thank you so much for your time, Ashley.

882

I appreciate it.

883

It's good to see

884

you, Lacey.

885

Ashley: to see you guys too.

886

Mhm.

887

Mhm.

888

Sara: Ashley, number two, we've,

Got to hear a little bit more.

889

Stay tuned for the third episode,

we're going to do the number two

890

episodes for Tyra and Teresa.

891

So keep that in your mind.

892

Speaking of cliffhangers I can't wait to

hear Lacey left us with a cliffhanger of

893

what she was going to be grateful for.

894

Lacey: You know, I love a personality

test and one of the personality tests

895

that I've done, it's called DISC

and it's a communication assessment,

896

for the workplace specifically.

897

And I'm what's called an I,

essentially, I am like good

898

at being excited about things.

899

that's one of my things

we were at a work retreat.

900

I was the only I, and I just kept

saying, I'm just so excited to be here.

901

And that was my job and it was great.

902

So I have really realized

that, I'm by myself a lot.

903

I, I do get to chat with

Sarah, but only so often.

904

And I realized I am missing

that hype woman aspect.

905

when I worked with students, I was

able to be like, you're doing it.

906

You got this.

907

when I was working with academic

advisors, I could think about different

908

ways to hype them, and so I put a

call out on social media this morning,

909

specifically on threads and tick tock.

910

And I said, Hey, I have a unique ability

to be genuinely excited about and I

911

want to use those for other people.

912

And when I tell you only five

people responded, but such quality.

913

moments in my day, I got to hype up

a few people on threads, one of which

914

like now we're going to be best friends

because she named her dog Roy Kent.

915

And I'm like, yes, please.

916

another woman on TikTok was like, I need

help hyping my trombone extender tool.

917

Yeah, it's called Extend a Bone,

which is the best name ever and

918

could be something very different.

919

Anyway, I watched her TikTok about it

and now I am passionate about making,

920

musical instruments more accessible

for people because if your arms aren't

921

long enough, you can't play all of

the different positions of trombone.

922

No!

923

We have a fix for that., extend a bone.

924

And I did, I loved it.

925

And I went off for two minutes

about how much I loved it.

926

Another woman told me that I have an

emerald aura, which then I Googled

927

it and it made me cry because

it was so kind about that I'm a

928

loving and compassionate person.

929

And I'm like, so yeah, I've just had just

the most lovely morning being able to hype

930

other people up and I Riding that high.

931

Sara: I am so happy for

the world and for you.

932

And two notes.

933

One, I want you to have a t

shirt that says, Hi, I'm Laci,

934

and I'm just excited to be here.

935

And two is, I want a bumper sticker that

says, Extend a bone, not what you think.

936

Lacey: And let me tell

you, I was so excited.

937

I didn't even talk about the

name in those two minutes.

938

That's how excited

about the concept I got.

939

Sara: I love

940

Lacey: And I, it's, I have a trouble,

I've hard time saying this cause it feels

941

like self aggrandizing or self important,

but I do have a, an ability to be

942

authentically excited about these things.

943

And I realized that

not everybody has that.

944

So thinking about it as a gift that

has been given to me that I can

945

use to spread joy to then really

bring so much joy back to me.

946

Like I said, that woman who

me my aura was emerald, I.

947

Almost cried in the video and she's

commented again and was like knowing

948

I made you happy made me happy

This is everything that I want.

949

We are getting there.

950

We're making it happen So even if it's

just me hyping people one person at

951

a time, I'm loving it and it's great

952

Sara: And that's like when you

said it was only five people.

953

I'm like, first of all, five is amazing.

954

And second of all, yeah,

that's the perfect number to

955

give quality hype to in one

956

Lacey: so I think I might try to do this

every day where I start my day with hyping

957

, Sara: it's so joyful support movement

because you give hype, you get hype,

958

Lacey: I'm high on joy.

959

I'm high on hype.

960

Yes.

961

It's the same reason why I

could talk for 30 minutes about

962

how cool I think roads are.

963

Sara: When you were talking about

the trombone thing, I was like, oh my

964

gosh, this is such a Rhodes situation.

965

So this is not my gratitude, but

it's adjacent to your talking

966

about being excited about things.

967

I went to the zoo with my son

and my niece, so 11 year olds.

968

I was so excited.

969

I was the hype person for every single

animal we saw and I was genuinely

970

excited and they were looking at me

like my head was on backwards and I'm

971

like, We have never seen this animal.

972

this is so exciting.

973

and there was a crocodile.

974

It was ginormous.

975

And it was so close.

976

And I was like, Do you understand

how big this cro Like, they

977

weren't looking at the animals.

978

They were mostly looking at me wide eyed.

979

Like, why are you so excited?

980

I'm like, this is very exciting.

981

Lacey: Oh, I would have loved that, Sarah.

982

Sara: I had so much fun that by

the end of the day I was genuinely

983

exhausted from being so excited.

984

Lacey: I love that so much.

985

And I will say my children have

inherited this ability from me.

986

And it is so fun.

987

Yesterday was the solar eclipse.

988

We were in 100 percent of totality here.

989

Some of Joe's family came up.

990

And, At a certain point I saw

my children get excited about it

991

and it was just so fun to see.

992

Isaac was like, mommy, do you see that?

993

And then at one point, I

love when my kids make jokes.

994

At one point Isaac was like,

it's not very nice for the moon

995

to do that to the sun, isn't it?

996

And it just, he knocked it out

of the park with his timing.

997

Like I just, this is why we do what we do,

998

Sara: I love that.

999

that is so amazing.

My moment of gratitude, I don't

know if anyone can hear it.

Laci swears she can't hear it.

My moment of gratitude is we

are getting our roof fixed.

So it started out with not a good

thing, which was our roof was leaking.

But being Sarah's point of view,

I'm like, we knew that we were

going to need a new roof eventually.

I'm really glad we caught

it before it was huge deal.

and I was able to get a great

recommendation super easily.

All just unfolded.

Just really easily, honestly

the hardest part was deciding

what shingle color to get.

but they're here now, they're putting

on this new roof, my dog's a little

overstimulated, and I had to build

a little soundproof room for us.

but it's all working out, and it's a

beautiful day, we'll get this new roof

done, so I'm just really thankful for

the ease with which this unfolded.

Lacey: did you know things

don't have to be hard?

Did you know?

This is something I'm still learning.

Sara: that's so funny.

We have talked about that before,

and I definitely hear it, but I

actually have to keep learning that.

So let's keep telling people

things don't have to be hard.

Because that was embedded in my

DNA growing up, of, not my DNA, but

The DNA of life, that everything

has to be 20 steps harder.

And yeah, when you find that easy

road, you're like, am I cheating?

is it okay that I'm in this fast

lane and you guys are all like

moving backwards apparently?

Lacey: Yeah,

Sara: I honestly I was just

like, should I be doing more?

Should I be, and I was just like,

let's just let it be this, man.

Lacey: not to go back to the extended

bone, but one of the things that I loved

Sara: Please do, no,

Lacey: is I and this is what I

said of It doesn't have to be hard.

I'm sure that there's someone out there

who's feeling salty that this exists and

that it's lazy or something like that.

And it's like, no, no, no, no, no.

It doesn't have to be hard if

it makes their life easier.

And they're still, I was about to

say boning with pride, they're

playing the trombone and I just,

it doesn't have to be hard.

Things can and are allowed to

Sara: I love that.

I feel like that is, you know how a book

has like a main title and then a subtitle?

It's joyful support movement.

Things can be easier.

Lacey: it's okay.

Sara: That's such a great

way to end this episode.

And to take forward into my day.

Things can be easier.

Let's remember that, folks.

Like Mr.

Rogers, that's like how we're

gonna, Things can be easier.

Lacey: They're allowed to

Sara: Thank you, Lacey.