Meet Ashley

Welcome to No Shame in the Home Game, the podcast that cares

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how your home feels, not looks.

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I am Laci, your, co learning

host, and I'm here with Sarah,

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who knows what's going on.

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Hi, Sarah.

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Sara: Hi, Lacey.

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It's so good to see you.

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Lacey: good to see you too.

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I'm excited to get our participants

out in the world today.

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Sara: It is very exciting.

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I was, I had jitters, like good jitters

this morning thinking about season two

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and just how powerful I think

it's going to be for other people.

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And it just really excited me.

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So if anyone else isn't

excited, that's okay.

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I might have enough

excitement for everyone.

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Lacey: I have a two.

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It's Okay.

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Sara: Okay, okay.

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Lacey: both have it,

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We're going to be meeting Ashley,

who's the first of our three

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participants for season two.

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and then you'll hear us talk about

this, but it really feels like

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Ashley has her stuff together.

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I don't

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Sara: know Ashley is the person

I would want to default to.

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if you were going on a family vacation

where you teamed up with another

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family and you were sharing a house, I

would, I mean we've already established

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I'm not a, I'm not a good leader.

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I don't like to be a leader.

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But I would feel a hundred percent

confident just being like, yeah,

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Ashley, tell me what to do.

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I'll do whatever you tell me to do.

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cause you you are very

much on top of things.

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with everything in life, we all

have little pockets where we could

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use a little input or guidance.

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And I think part of having it all

together is realizing where you do

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have a spot where you need some.

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And so she was very generous by being

willing to share that with our audience.

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Lacey: Yeah.

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And I think what's also interesting,

especially in this first episode

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with Ashley, it was very clear

she was coming in with one thing

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that she wanted to talk about.

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And then we took a turn and we

really focused on something else.

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And I was really.

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love when that happens, because

I think it really highlights the

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brain versus the feeling of this

is what I think I need to fix.

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And then as we get talking, it's

no, this is actually what I think

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I want to, what I want to work on.

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And it, it really highlights that

aspect of, it's about the feelings,

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not about the thinking, not about the

looks or what you should do type stuff.

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Sara: Yeah.

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Those sort of outside expectations of

just highlighting what you're saying.

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You think, Oh, so and so's

room looks just like this.

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Therefore, my room should be

just as structured or, I saw on

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some show or magazine, article,

it should look like this.

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And so just like you said,

taking out that thinking and

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then yes, with Ashley, we did.

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Once we talked a little bit

and kept pulling those threads.

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Yeah, we got to the part of our house

that really felt like, Not settled to her.

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And that was really interesting.

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That was fun too.

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Cause it was, they're all so different.

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Lacey: So different.

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So different this season.

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So we're excited for you all to meet

Ashley and let's jump right into

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our first conversation with her.

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Welcome, Ashley.

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Thank you for being a participant in our

season two of no shame in the home game.

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Ashley: thank you for having me.

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I'm excited.

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Sara: Thank you Ashley,

for being willing.

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always amazed and thankful that

participants are willing to peek behind

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the curtain, but it's like opening the

front door and really showing people

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the inner workings of your house.

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'cause that's how we're gonna start to

make change is by people being honest

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about what's working and what's not.

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Do you want to tell our audience

just a little bit about who you

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are, where you live, and who all

lives with you in your house?

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Ashley: my gosh.

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That's a that's an intro.

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I, live in New Hampshire.

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I am an OT, and I work out of

my home, which is, probably

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a pretty essential piece.

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and I have a company that is built

around organizing and planning for

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things that are more particular to,

the mental load, and collaborative

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communication among families.

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this is not a big leap for me.

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It's more of a, step down

the sidewalk, to be here.

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But I live, in a single

family home with my husband.

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We have four kids, 10, 3.

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We have a large 90 pound lab that warms

the couch, a very small cat, an aquatic

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frog, and we have two outdoor rabbits.

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So we've got people and

we've got pets and all of it.

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Yeah.

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Sara: wait.

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Was there two outdoor cat rabbit?

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Oh my

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God.

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Ashley: Rabbits.

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Sara: four.

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So you have five animals.

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Ashley: Yes.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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I do.

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Sara: four, four kids, a

husband and five animals and,

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you have your own company,

which big shout out to Dovetail.

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I've been using your products

and I love how crisp and

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clear, and very helpful for me.

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And then are you also doing OT

work as well, or is that on pause?

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Ashley: That I, I did OT work.

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I actually worked with people in their

homes doing, accessibility consulting.

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So for people to age into their

homes all the way up until

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COVID, which business wise.

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Not a stellar choice because that's when

people started pulling their aging parents

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out of facilities and moving them home.

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However, it also coincided with me having

a brand new baby and it being a pandemic.

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So I couldn't go in, so I

don't do any of the consulting,

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currently.

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Sara: I'm glad for you because

you've got four kids, a husband

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and five animals and a business.

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so that's a little bit about your home.

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And then what about growing up when you,

if I say home management, what's the

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first descriptors that come to mind?

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Ashley: I grew up with very

traditional, like my dad cut the grass.

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my parents did stuff together though.

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like my parents both loved

to garden, when I was a kid.

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So there are some crossover areas,

but like my mom was home for.

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I think four or five years with, my

brother and I are 15 months apart.

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My mom was home.

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and then she eventually went to

school at night, to get her master's.

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She's a nurse, to get her

master's so that she could teach.

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And so my dad went from working and

coming home and dinner was on the table to

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, like, and coming home and making dinner.

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And, so that, that was a really

fun, not necessarily most

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delicious time of my life.

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It was interesting cause I never

really had any of those notions

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about you do this and you do this.

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And in my own home, it

doesn't work that way either.

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my husband cooks, he, like

loves to cook and bake and.

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He runs the vacuum and I clean

the bathrooms, so there's a lot of

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swapping that goes on in my house.

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And then to to a certain degree,

that's what I grew up with.

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My parents, got divorced

when I was in middle school.

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And so then they both had their own,

places that they had to take care of.

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And so guess that maybe that's why I don't

see it so traditionally black and white,

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Sara: And do you feel like when

you started managing your own

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home, when you and your husband?

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we're living together,

starting to have a family.

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Do you feel like it organically

came about with your husband

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cooking and baking and vacuuming?

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Or was there more delegation

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Ashley: we, so we started living together.

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In college, like right before we got

married and then got married we're

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both benefiting from the, having

parents and growing up when we did,

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my husband was raised by a single mom.

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And so there was no other person

there to fill in the other role.

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So like he grew up.

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Doing all the things he didn't do laundry,

which is probably to save clothing.

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but he, cooks and bakes and

cleans and all of that stuff.

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There wasn't ever like a defined.

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person for each thing because

everyone chipped in to do that.

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It was him and his older brother and his

mom and so he also had no preconceived

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notions and I made it very clear

that I had no intention of rocking an

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apron and a vacuum for the next ever.

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Sara: When I remember when my husband

and I got engaged and we were living

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together and I remember specifically

looking at him in the eyes and I was like.

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Do not expect Betty homemaker.

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I was like, please if that's

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your expectation

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ain't gonna happen.

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I'm gonna be clear right up

front Yeah, and he grew up with a

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single mom as well.

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So he was like, no, I didn't

have any Expectations.

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I was like, that's good

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Ashley: Yeah.

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It's nice.

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We never had a big,, conversation

or showdown or whatever.

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I do think, though, that, so that in

the beginning was that way, right?

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everything was very balanced.

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We were both working full time

out of the house, but where we ran

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into that was when I had a baby.

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And I was home more.

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and then things started

to go into that, I'm home.

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I can do this.

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You're gone.

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that, that's where things went.

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And then it didn't, it did not take

very long before I was like, no, this is

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not, I don't have any desire to do this.

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So like it involved the

conversation around that.

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That happened.

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we had been together, I think for

Oh, we had been together for 13 years

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and we had been married for seven, I

think before my, my daughter was born.

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Even after all that time, there's a

slow Grand Canyon erosion of roles.

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And I was like, I didn't

sign up for it then.

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I do not sign up for it now.

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We need to come up with

a schedule and a plan.

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So all of our stuff happens on

the weekend when everybody's home.

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Because that's the time where they're

like, I'm not doing the whole like,

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you're home, it's easier, I'm gone,

it's easier for me to do this.

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When it comes to home management

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Sara: And I love that you brought

that up because you both know I love

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my work so much and I love getting

into these like nitty gritties and

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there's never any resolution, right?

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There's never any oh,

we've solved the problem.

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Like you said, it had worked for so long.

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This new variable came in and there

was either this just there wasn't a

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conversation about it and or the mixture

of those traditional roles coming up.

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And I find it.

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So interesting.

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And I haven't talked to everybody

in the world, but it tends to be

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that the female recognizes the

slipping and the male doesn't.

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And I think it's because the

female ends up, there's more

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discomfort with what's happening

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in that.

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And so I always find

that really interesting.

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Lacey, I'm curious.

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I don't know about you and Joe.

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when you first started living together,

was there a clear conversation about.

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Who's washing, who's cooking,

who's changing the sheets?

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Lacey: So I, I don't know if it's

just that I give off very strong,

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I'm not a homemaker energy.

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But we never really had to have that.

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Joe would joke that he would be

a better stay at home mom than I

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would because he would do more of

those things before we had kids.

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And I'll be honest, we're both just

I'm using the term lazy, not in a

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judgment, but we will let as much

slide as possible for as long as we can.

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that's our thing.

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And Before kids, it was just

whatever, we'll figure it out.

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we would cook, we would clean as

we, there really wasn't management.

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It was just like, as things

came up, we did them.

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But I will say when we had kids,

that was our big same point of mostly

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me being like, we need systems.

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This is I feel like everything's

just falling on me and I cannot.

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this and, I was breastfeeding, so

I felt like I was doing everything

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with the baby, that kind of stuff.

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So I really, to the

kids changed everything.

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Sara: my

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sister, she had kids before me, she's

got four and she put it so clearly.

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She's just you got more to do, but

you have the same number of hands and

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the same number of hours in the day.

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Cause I too, I felt like

I was losing my mind.

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Like I'm not getting anything done.

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And it's Oh yeah, cause I have

so many more expectations.

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of myself now that there's another

human being and then yes multiply

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that by four kids and five animals

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Lacey: think about that

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person that I was.

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I was like, man, I had nothing

going on and I did not care

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about keeping a house clean.

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if I went back to being that person who I

am now, like my house would be immaculate.

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I would eat the healthiest

food in the world.

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Honestly, I would probably just go back

to the exact same person I was because

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we're just meeting expectations here.

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Ashley: Like for us, it definitely

wasn't the first kid too for us

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that it happened because it was most

closely related to the number of

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hours I worked outside of our house.

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So when I went to, after my first, I

went back to work, but I worked per diem.

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So I worked on the weekend.

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I was home during the week and

he was home on the weekend.

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And things were actually still

really evenly split because if he was

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home, then he would do those things.

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And I remember going back to work

and people saying, other people that

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had kids around that time saying,

I, left clothes out for the, for him

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to, dress the baby and, I did this

and, made breakfast and all of that.

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And I was like, I just

walked out of my house.

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He also needed time to

figure this stuff out too.

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Like he had never had a baby

and I had never had a baby.

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And so I was like, I have five days a

week that I'm figuring out how to do this.

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And you have your own system and you are

your own person when it comes to the baby.

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And these are all the things

that need to happen in our house.

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I took care of these, or you

took care of those, therefore the

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balance would swing back and forth.

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And it wasn't until I worked from

home, where I didn't have that

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barrier of not being here, as

part of my employment, that, that

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was when the rubber hit the road.

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When I was like, conversations are

a happening, my friend, because the

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speed of change really picked up

and if things went from gray to like

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more black and white, just based

on, perceived ease or whatever on

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everyone's part to and I was like, Oh no,

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Lacey: no

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Sara: Oh, that is so good So when you

heard about this opportunity in the show

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and you signed up What was it in your

head that you're like I need help with

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ABC like you can name them all and then

we'll hone in on One, but let's hear about

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what tension points you have right now.

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Ashley: I think for us, the big tension

point is, so I live in New England.

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I live in a hundred and twelve year old

house, with four kids and no mudroom.

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And anyone who has any sort of

inclement weather in their life

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is like probably going, huh.

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Yep.

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For sure.

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Our kids are very, active, they are

outside all the time, and we live a

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couple miles from the ocean, so we have

a lot of things that can get messy

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really quickly, and the idea is setting

up our home in the best way possible,

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and right now we have the like stages

that we've gone through to get it.

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So it's just trying to figure out

like when the kids come home from

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school, where does everything go?

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And when the kids are going to go to

ballet or lacrosse or gymnastics or

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whatever, like how does that all work?,

and then I think the other part is and

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I think it doesn't matter how many kids

you have, like kids come with a lot of

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stuff.

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and so it's just, so

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much stuff.

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and I don't care, I don't care if

you have like 1 or 12 or whatever,

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like a human being that is so small.

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Has so much square footage of your house.

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and it's good.

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Like it's all good.

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It's just coming up with ways to do

stuff that makes sense for the volume of

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things that come home from school, , I

want to keep some of their artwork, but

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it's how do you like come up with some

sort of system for that so that I'm not

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just like living in piles of paperwork

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Lacey: I feel that so much to my

soul right now, because literally

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last night I looked at my husband

and I said, you're not allowed to

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put a piece of paper on this island.

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He was like, where does the art go?

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And I was like, you get to figure it out,

but it's not going to be on this island.

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Ashley: and important

thing I've ever made.

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And it's the top of a cereal

box that's been ripped off.

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And there's a star on it.

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And I'm like, I know

this is important to you.

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I'm not discounting your

feelings in any way.

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I just don't know how I can honor that

for you while also not losing my mind

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because it's on top of 80 other pieces

of the most important artwork ever.,

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Sara: you're not alone.

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honor the kid's emotions while

honoring your own and back to the

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kids come with a lot of stuff.

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I consulted with a couple.

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They just had an infant.

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just holding its head up infant

and they knew they wanted to change

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something with their laundry room,

which was right next to the door that

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came in from the garage and it wasn't.

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set up as a really,

functional high traffic space.

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Okay,

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if you're going to optimize

this, let's talk about things.

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And so me and the other gal that we're

working on the project, we kept talking

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about strollers and snow boots and snow

pants and all the things that come along

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and they were like, no, that's a no.

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And we're like, no, yes.

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Ashley: It's happening.

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Sara: they,

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because

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the baby was so little, it was

still in the, it's all cute phase.

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And we were like, they can't hear us.

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So it was really, it was

a really interesting time.

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Ashley: I had this problem on the

other end of the lifespan in the

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consulting work that I did where

people were like, they're trying to

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figure out how to optimize the space

and how to get rid of all this stuff.

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So that they could, open things up

but there's so many memories that are

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attached to it for the people in there,

so it's like the other end, right?

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now it's the parents who are like, I

can't possibly get rid of that, , but

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you have a walker, and you need to get

through this space, so we can't keep

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this random bookshelf of Things how

do we reorganize this in a way that

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makes sense for you on this end of it,

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Sara: And where do you fall on

that spectrum of hanging on to

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things versus letting things go?

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Ashley: it comes to like stuff with the

kids is around clothes, baby clothes.

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Cause I have some stuff

that my grandmother made.

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Or things that all four kids have worn.

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So if it's something a, if it's

something that has gone through four

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children, but also there's always like

emotion and memory attached to that.

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And so that I've already decided is

not the hill I'm going to die on.

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Mhm.

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Mhm.

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Sara: Then, so going back to

the main issue, what I heard was

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the mudroom, the coming and the

going, and that level of chaos.

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I don't want to say chaos, but it's

a, it's the high turnover rate,

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Participant Alex, that was the same thing.

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It was the coming and the going and

the dropping and the needing stuff.

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And she also lived in an older home.

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Ashley: yeah, we have like a temporary

solution at the back door right now,

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but the reason that doesn't work is

because Everyone's coming in the front

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door so it's just, it's that it's

that constant, I think this is the

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part that like drives me nuts about

so many of the minimalist things.

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It's it's so much easier to just

get rid of a bunch of stuff.

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However, There's four people that

have stuff, that's, it's so hard to

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figure out what needs to come out

when it needs to come out and what

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needs to go away that you're, that

you need to be able to find, but not

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store and how to balance all of that.

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Sara: of the principles I

say to clients a lot is.

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It's the precious real estate, right?

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So like where you put things,

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like you just said, if you don't

have a lot of space next to that

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transition area, you only need items

that are being used every day for you.

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If it's once a week.

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Yeah.

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It needs to be someplace else.

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Once a month, once a season,

definitely someplace else

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So tell me about, you said you tried

to make a solution, which was it by the

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back door, but you come in the front.

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Ashley: My husband built like cubbies

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at the back door, just temporary.

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but there's cubbies back there.

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and so each kid has their own space

cause before it was like hangers

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and then shelving and stuff, but

no one had their own defined space.

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Back there, which is, it has helped, I

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Sara: But you come in the other door

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Ashley: Come in the front

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door.

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, we just, we didn't use our

front door all that much.

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So we got used to this idea of the back

door, but now the kids are back in school.

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they've been back in school, but that's

just one of those things that I guess

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started the conversation of, can we

change the entrance so it's easier?

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can we have a mudroom entrance?

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And not use the front door because

we were always blocked before by

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thinking like, everyone walks in

the front door of their house, but

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Sara: No.

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So Okay, so what is, so right

now, back door, not as trafficked,

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what is in the cubbies right now?

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Ashley: Right now it's snow clothes,

it is, lunch boxes, my daughter

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does band, so her flute is there.

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they have bins in there that have, the

school work stuff, so that's the current,

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situation is, stuff that needs to come out

of the backpack so that it doesn't end up

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spread all over the kitchen counters go

into bins in there, and That's been good.

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So long as you keep on top of the bins.

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yeah.

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So that's all the stuff that's there.

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And then there's shoes underneath

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Sara: And then shoes, and what's

by the front door right now?

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Ashley: Nothing.

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There's just a bench there.

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So everything gets pulled from

the front door to the back door.

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So it's just this like I wish

I had a little conveyor belt.

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I could just put stuff on.

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It wouldn't go direct, but, there's

a closet, kitchen, all this stuff.

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But if I could just have everyone

come home and put stuff on the

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conveyor belt and move it to

the back door, it'd be great.

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Because the back door has all the space,

but the front door has the function.

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Sara: so when, are you the one

shuttling all the stuff from

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the front door to the back door?

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Ashley: Oh no, I

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make the kids do it.

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It's their stuff.

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Sara: Okay.

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I've got a better picture of

everything that's going on.

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What can we do between now and

when you get your dream mudroom?

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What can I do for you now?

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Ashley: think the, for me, it's

that, it's that rotation piece.

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Is like rotating things around,

not physically, not changing

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the layout of the house.

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although if you could do that

over a podcast, you're hired.

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but it's just that idea of having

some sort of, I guess a plan

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for rotating things through.

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Sara: in the cubby area right now?

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Ashley: yeah,

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Sara: so it would be, what I'm thinking

of, and tell me if this is getting

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warm, each child and then breaking down

activities for each child and by season.

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Ashley: Yeah.

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I think too.

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Like in that, and that stuff is great.

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It's, I will say that on top of the,

that piece, like having a little

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bit of a system in place is fine.

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I think the toy rotation

quite honestly is the biggest

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piece.

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yeah, like toy rotation in our

playroom and stuff like that.

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So not to take a

457

hard left on it, but that's the part that

like, as far as Trying to make sure that

458

things are in the space where, where it's

going to make sense for the kids that are

459

there, and what's being used at that time.

460

I think that's the big,

that's the big piece for

461

Sara: Okay, so the toy

rotation in the playroom.

462

So tell me about the playroom.

463

Ashley: it's on the first

floor, but there's four ages

464

of kids that go through there.

465

we've had anything from remote

control cars to, the baby

466

mat and things like that.

467

So just trying to make sure that there's

age appropriate things and how to rotate

468

those through for the kids in a way

that everyone has something to play with

469

and something to do and creative space

470

Sara: you feel like up until now

it's been more of an afterthought or

471

have you tried and it hasn't quite

gotten to where you've wanted it?

472

Ashley: I think quite honestly, because

there's such a spread and everyone,

473

they're at an age where everyone

moves through stages so quickly.

474

It's just been like a, a big

piece of keeping up with things

475

as kids are growing out of

476

and into them.

477

I think that's a hard, that's

a hard piece to manage.

478

Sara: do you feel like right

now there's too much or is it

479

just that it's not organized?

480

Ideally.

481

Ashley: think that the, that right

now it's having the anticipation

482

of what is going to go through.

483

So like my oldest does, she

likes crafts that are really like

484

intricate, like jewelry making but.

485

That stuff can't be out all the time

486

it's a constant game of making sure

that there's things there that are

487

accessible for everybody as they need to.

488

Lacey: I just want to

489

give you a lot of empathy right now,

because I have a two and a four year old.

490

So like you're two youngest, essentially.

491

And I have a hard time with just

the two of them, ones using Duplo

492

blocks, ones using small Legos.

493

And we've got to figure out

how to keep them separate.

494

And how do we honor this space?

495

So I just, to throw in

two more kids, whew, just.

496

to you for thinking about

it, for trying, I just, yeah.

497

Ashley: And also to like I want them

like if that's their space They have a

498

responsibility to do their part in terms

of cleaning up in there and they do a

499

really good job but I notice as there's

more things then it just becomes like

500

the Mount Everest of trying to organize

so every once in a while you got to go

501

through and like bulldoze the place.

502

Sara: Just out of curiosity, is there

a, are there any doors or is it an open?

503

Ashley: There's doors.

504

It's a room.

505

I live, yeah, I live in a,

like a New England house.

506

So there's a, we converted the

closet to costume, hanging costume

507

storage and art and craft cabinet

kind of thing that's in there.

508

I think the people that we bought

the house from years and years ago

509

used it as their front hall closet

because we have no front hall closet.

510

Lacey: gotcha.

511

Ashley: the problem with the mudroom.

512

Sara: Is that like where

the playing happens?

513

Because I know a lot of families, the

toys just always end up migrating out and

514

around every other space in the house.

515

Ashley: Yeah, I think because it

is, a, room, not an open space.

516

I think, they do like things

migrate around, but they will.

517

Pull them back in.

518

if they're playing a game or

something, they'll come out and

519

do it in the dining room or things

like that, but, and not all of the

520

toys that they have are in one room.

521

So like they have toys in

their room and they have toys.

522

The games are in a different cabinet

because otherwise I would have no

523

games with all of the pieces and

then no one would ever play anything.

524

Because it's just like confetti of stuff

and I'm like, oh my god, we lost all of

525

the pepperoni for the pizza game like

526

Sara: So your board games are

527

elsewhere.

528

Ashley: Board games are elsewhere.

529

And it's, and puzzles.

530

puzzles.

531

Sara: I'll have you send me some pictures

so I can visualize better, but just

532

roughly, you said you have a closet

and then what other structures do you

533

have for storage or even activities?

534

Yes.

535

Ashley: There's a play kitchen, and

it, and so that has storage in there.

536

It has a there's a dress

up costume bin in there.

537

there is shelving, there's built in

shelving and then there's a, a desk

538

where like their art and stuff is.

539

Sara: Does it go floor to

ceiling or is it higher?

540

Oh, okay.

541

So even the youngest

could access the lower.

542

Ashley: Yeah.

543

Yeah.

544

So the first, it's floor to ceiling

and the first, I think the first

545

four shelves are toys and baskets.

546

And then above that is pictures

and artwork and things like that.

547

It's really about the rotation of things.

548

Through

549

Sara: So more

550

Some ideas off the top of my

head is I'm envisioning it in.

551

By kid, but more like age, right?

552

And then

553

within each, no, let's say like

by each kid, and then each kid

554

having different categories.

555

I don't know, does the 10

year old still do dress up?

556

Ashley: yeah, that's and that's

the other thing too Is they

557

all like everything there is no

558

Sara: so erase that

559

Ashley: the youngest will do Lego.

560

So my three year old does like full

on Lego so because there is this

561

span Everything has to make sense.

562

I'm telling you like two and a half

years ago when I had a kid who was

563

like putting everything in his mouth I

was like we may not be able to use the

564

playroom because I can't pull those things

565

Lacey: Yeah.

566

Ashley: but they play together and

they play together really welL.

567

Sara: Okay, so then it's what I'm

hearing is categories the creative

568

like the crafting piece Lego to me

would be its own category dress up so

569

coming up in This doesn't necessarily

have to be the right direction but

570

coming up with categories And then

maybe certain ones are just staple ones,

571

like you said, everyone does dress up

572

like that one's not going to change.

573

So

574

that one's that category is not going

away, but it might be going through

575

it and going, Oh, this is ripped.

576

It can't be repaired, or this is

stained, just culling through it once

577

a year and then finding the items

that are maybe in a miscellaneous

578

category that those are the ones that

are Not being used or played with.

579

And then again, having designated

times to go through them.

580

Does that feel like I'm getting

warmer or not quite hitting it yet?

581

Ashley: Yeah, I think that's the

idea It's like not having things

582

that don't Fit the bill for anybody

anymore or they have lived their life.

583

We have a lot of kids

here and that's the thing.

584

I want them to have like space and

I want things to be functional.

585

I want them to be able to

take care of their own.

586

I just don't, I don't want to

spend my whole life being the

587

like, person, like the parent

who's we have to clean the house.

588

You know what I mean?

589

And pick up the toys and all that.

590

So like that, the idea of going

through and pulling out the pieces

591

that aren't played with and aren't

as functional and don't make sense

592

in that space is the direction I

think that makes the most sense.

593

Because it's true.

594

If there's too many things.

595

It just it's just become that

becomes a thing and it's like the

596

thing that never gets dealt with.

597

Sara: and I think that this is so great

that this is the kids area because

598

teaching your kids this skill about not

only Respecting your belongings, picking

599

them up, putting them away, getting

them off the floor and we need to clean.

600

So respecting them, but also

recognizing like, yeah, some things

601

we don't keep forever or somebody

602

else might play with this more.

603

And we might be beyond that and

learning how to let go of items.

604

Cause I think that's actually

a really good life skill

605

is to recognize and learn.

606

And it's hard.

607

Lacey just had this when she moved and.

608

There was a lot of confusion over

what was going into storage and

609

what was going away forever, right?

610

Didn't your kids have some

big emotions about letting go?

611

Lacey: Yes.

612

Yeah.

613

And one, I will say one time that I was

very proud is, I was trying to sneakily

614

get rid of stuff because out of sight,

615

out of mind.

616

And so we did a, We

call it curb alert here.

617

It's hey, we've got these toys,

put it on the neighborhood

618

Facebook page, come get it.

619

And my hope was that it was all

going to be gone by the time

620

my kids got home from daycare.

621

Or that

622

Ashley: yeah, that is

623

Lacey: yeah

624

or that I was going to get it

back in, which was cute that I

625

would think that I would do that.

626

and so when my son saw all

this stuff on the sidewalk,

627

he Was distraught and he but

628

he asked my husband He's can I just bring

this one back inside and it was a top like

629

a pop up tunnel And I was like, you know

630

what bud you picked one thing

that you wanted great We'll bring

631

it back in and that tunnel is in

the Foyer of our house right now.

632

So it's being used still such a process

because we want to do the same thing

633

again and go through our we just painted

the toy room and our playroom and are

634

getting the toys back in and my husband

and I like we got to get rid of a bunch

635

of these and I think you all are inspiring

me to bring the kids into it and be

636

like, okay We only have this much space

637

what do you really want?

638

and go from there.

639

Ashley: Yeah,

640

Sara: Yeah, and again, great to

bring in the kids and teach them.

641

And I think, I'm not one

for extremes or absolutes.

642

I think taking, making kids get rid of

things when they're not ready can be.

643

As equally scarring as never teaching

them to get rid of anything, right?

644

So finding that middle ground, and

I'm not, I know you both know this and

645

just saying this for people who are

listening, who maybe have little ones

646

and don't realize this is going to

become a thing when like Ashley said

647

at the beginning, you have a piece of

cardboard with a bottle cap and it's

648

the most precious thing in the world.

649

And teaching kids.

650

Yeah, you have a lot of strong

emotions right now to this item.

651

Yep.

652

Let's respect and honor that.

653

And let's revisit this in

a month or three months

654

and having that space because they

will inevitably grow new attachments to

655

things and things that were so important.

656

And they would have, like you said, the

hill to die on a month ago, they will have

657

completely forgotten about the next week.

658

So teaching the kids that

again, very important.

659

And then going through your items.

660

I love that.

661

I love picking any area of my house.

662

I just did a medicine cabinet, and I love

it going, Oh my gosh, I didn't realize how

663

many medicine cups.

664

I had like I had 50

665

medicine cups and going, I'm not mad at

myself for having 50 medicine cups, but

666

I'm glad that I'm looking at it going,

I need 10 like in taking that time.

667

So teaching your kids, we're going to go

through the toy room and you get to pick.

668

When you want to do it, I think the

first one is probably going to be a

669

little bit of a bigger one and then

maintenance will be easier down the

670

road I really enjoy doing something like

that, once a year prompted by something.

671

So, like, before the holidays

or birthdays, like, when, a

672

bunch of stuff is going to be

coming in doing it before then.

673

So you make space here.

674

We do a lot of free curb stuff.

675

And that's really popular

in the summer months.

676

So I actually love doing that before

school starts because then I'm

677

like, okay, I've emptied my house.

678

Cause once school starts, I'm not going

to want to do this right before Christmas.

679

My house cycle, are you able, how

are you able to get rid of things?

680

Do you do curb stuff?

681

Facebook, do you have a pretty

good avenue for passing things on?

682

Ashley: yeah.

683

I have friends that have older kids.

684

And so for a long time, our porch was

people's drop off thumbs up for them.

685

Thumbs down for me because my

kids would come home and there'd

686

be stuff on my porch and I would

be like, Oh my God, here we go.

687

Some things like, really cool things,

all of my kids have gone to the same

688

preschool, so they've had the same

preschool teacher for years and years,

689

and they're in a classroom, so like, when

this stuff comes home, like a, a pottery

690

barn frame with fabric cover, little

like garden shed looking thing comes.

691

And I'm like, this is great.

692

However, it takes up half of the

playroom and that you actually

693

have to physically put it together.

694

I brought it to school and

said, would you like this?

695

And they were like, absolutely.

696

And they had the space.

697

And then I know that three, four and

five year olds who are at the right

698

age for this and who are going to be

interested in this and who like it,

699

they can do a lot of things with it is

going to be there versus being in my

700

house set up, then not played with, then

tripped over, then, all of that piece.

701

And then it's that takes

up so much of the space.

702

So I will say one of the things

that I do that I've done that.

703

I think actually helps the kids is

that some of those pieces will go

704

in there so they see them at school

And then when they transition on to

705

kindergarten from preschool, my last

kid, is in his first year of preschool.

706

there's one more year, but,

every kid who has gone in is

707

Hey, did you see the playhouse?

708

and then, as they go, that, that thing

has the memory in there versus, being

709

this traumatic, ejection from my house.

710

That, that one, and then thankfully

for my repurposing purposes, my

711

brother in law just had a baby.

712

Sara: Do they have a big front porch?

713

Lacey: ha.

714

Ashley: they've got, they got a big

porch and, they don't live that far away.

715

And so I'm like, someday when you

come home and there's like stuff

716

sitting there, I'm just saying I

may or may not be the one who has

717

backed up my car to your front porch.

718

Sara: And then, so those

are two great avenues.

719

Do you also have either a local,

secondhand store or free Facebook page?

720

Ashley: We have both, one thing that

I did that I learned from another

721

mom is she, set up accounts at a

kid's consignment shop for her kids.

722

So she doesn't, it doesn't all

go into one account and then

723

she buys things from there.

724

So the kids, when they bring stuff in.

725

they get the money back for it.

726

So they have an account.

727

So when they go into the

store, they can shop.

728

So they are completely invested in

this process of I'm done with this.

729

I'm going to take us here.

730

They're going to sell it and then I'm

going to then have that money so that

731

I can buy something new for myself.

732

So like getting into that way

of thinking about it versus

733

everything goes in the garbage

734

Sara: Oh, that's beautiful.

735

There's so many ways to approach it.

736

There's that taking

737

control over.

738

Oh, I can use this and put

it towards something else.

739

There's also that avenue of passing

it on to a preschool where other

740

kids are going to get to enjoy it.

741

if you're only playing with it

once every six months, like this is

742

going to be played with every day.

743

So recognizing that's

supporting your community.

744

Yes, and there's also just being

aware of, reuse, reduce, recycle.

745

let's be aware of how much we're bringing

in the house and do we really need more?

746

Because I see this a lot.

747

It's really hard.

748

about letting go of 50 percent of

your toys, but it's yeah, but the

749

second 50 percent is just going

to get played with a lot more.

750

once it's out the door

751

and out of sight, out of

mind, like everything else

752

just gets appreciated more.

753

And that's what I say a lot to my

own son is just, if we can't, Respect

754

our belongings, then we have too

many belongings to take care of.

755

Because I want him to be really

thoughtful of how much are

756

you bringing in to maintain?

757

And please don't mishear me.

758

I'm not a minimalist.

759

My house is any, isn't very far

from a minimalist, but I'm just

760

trying to implant those ideas.

761

So again, this is all great

for your kids to learn now.

762

I'm super excited about that.

763

Lacey: Can I interject real

764

quick?

765

Just, this

766

is my, other, PSA.

767

If you have to throw something away,

there's no shame in throwing it away.

768

this is something,

769

so while all of, everything

you guys just talked about.

770

Yeah, resources and taking these places

that does take effort and some people

771

like me only has so much effort to give

and so I just throwing away as an option.

772

It's not shameful I think if you're

being mindful like we've already

773

said, I just don't want anyone

beating themselves up if they have to

774

Ashley: Yeah, for sure.

775

And in that same vein, if you've got

stuff that you are getting rid of because

776

it is unsafe, because it is, broken

beyond repair, doing as much as you

777

can, and that's not it doesn't mean,

you have taken apart all the plastic

778

pieces in the game thing, and you have

taken apart this, and you have taken,

779

I'm, I don't think that everyone's house

should be, like, a recycling center where

780

you're, like stripping stuff down to, to

make sure that you're doing your best.

781

Cause that's just I still have four kids.

782

Like I don't, I'm good on things

that I need to get done in a week.

783

If something has ended its lifespan or

it is going to be unsafe for somebody

784

else, chuck that thing and don't think

785

twice.

786

Or if you're

787

Sara: absolutely.

788

and

789

that's why I was asking about if you have

places, because I always do try to find

790

that path of least resistance for clients.

791

Do you have a thrift store you

drive by on the way to work?

792

Is there a local organization that

will come and pick it up at your house?

793

I, cause yes, if that is

the barrier to entry is too.

794

then people won't do it.

795

And Lacey said, sometimes

throwing it away is the answer.

796

And I also go by the 80 20

rule, which makes me human.

797

Like I have a really good intention

and my hope is I get that 80 percent of

798

the time, but yeah, 20 percent of the

time I'm just throwing it away because

799

life has to keep happening and I'm.

800

Not going to

801

beat myself up.

802

I'm just going to go, eh, I try

my best 80 percent of the time.

803

So these are all

804

great things to touch on.

805

With back to the toy room, I wrote down a

couple of notes and I'm still formulating

806

exactly how we're going to approach

this, but a couple of key notes are.

807

When you're thinking about the toy room,

first of all is having those boundaries.

808

Okay, we have this built in bookshelf.

809

We have this trunk, we

have this closet, right?

810

So when things start to spill out

of those spaces, then it's too much.

811

So keeping that in mind, it's okay, nope,

it's got to be within these boundaries.

812

And then thinking of the categories,

which I'm thinking that's going to be your

813

homework is let's get those categories

down of what you have in the toy room.

814

And then when you're going through

things, and this will be part of maybe

815

a larger reset if it's possible, is when

you're going through teaching your kids

816

and for you, you look at one category

altogether and you go, what is an absolute

817

yes, and you put that to the side.

818

Absolutely.

819

No discussion.

820

We're keeping this.

821

What's an absolute no.

822

Everyone's just Oh yeah,

I don't like that one.

823

I've never liked that one.

824

It's uncomfortable, whatever.

825

Put those over the side.

826

And then you're left with the,

I'm not sure is in the middle.

827

And that's the stuff that kind

of starts to accumulate, right?

828

More and more.

829

And that's where you get down into

the nitty gritty of, okay, is this

830

something we need to just put in a box

and label it, check back in three months.

831

And if nobody's asked about it,

then you get to give it to the

832

preschool or throw it away.

833

Or,

834

really thinking about that and then

teaching your kids and then again, I'm

835

seeing because of the evolving ages and

the categories having, we're going to

836

do this initial reset with intention

and then thinking of a maintenance plan.

837

So whatever we teach you

doing it on a smaller scale.

838

Before birthday presents come

in, before the holiday, right?

839

Like thinking,

840

pairing that with something

that makes sense and it will

841

just become like second nature.

842

just like you go to get your teeth

cleaned once or twice a year, right?

843

You're just like, okay, in six

months I'm going to come back

844

and get my teeth cleaned again.

845

And then the kids will know too.

846

The more we get rid of, the less we'll

have to go through the next time.

847

So how does all of that sound?

848

Don't we feel like we're getting warmer?

849

Ashley: Yeah, I think so.

850

Coming up with some sort of system

851

Sara: so for homework right now,

one is I'm going to ask you to, send

852

me some pictures so I have a better

visual of the space and everything.

853

And then if you could jot down, and you

can pull your kids in to do this, but

854

think about categories that are in there.

855

So start to think about it.

856

The toy room is one room in

your house, but then within

857

the toy room, like what are the

categories that you're approaching?

858

And then three is going to

be, once I see the picture and

859

know more of the categories.

860

Then we can just then we can talk about

your way in if it's going to be are you

861

going to set aside a big Chunk of time to

do this all at once or do you want to go

862

through the categories like do 45 minutes?

863

Go through one category come back

another day and kind of figure out

864

what sounds best to you sound And out

of curiosity, I just thought of this.

865

What is your system?

866

Because your kids go through, I'm

thinking the clothes turnover a lot.

867

Do you have a system already in place

for when you go through their closets?

868

Do you do that by season?

869

Ashley: yeah, I do that by

season so like in the fall and

870

then in the spring I do It.

871

,

. So one will be consignment, one will be donation, and one

872

will go to, now will go to my

873

brother in law.

874

Sara: of the part of my work when

I work with clients is figuring

875

out what's already working well.

876

So it sounds like you have a really

refined system for the clothes.

877

Can you

878

Ashley: Yep.

879

been

880

Sara: So what feels and so I'm

curious what feels different

881

between the clothes and the toys

882

Ashley: it's because it's not me.

883

Like I make the decisions about the

clothes and what doesn't work and

884

things like that.

885

The toys and the things like that

is very much directed by them

886

because this is their experience of

887

Sara: okay, That felt

like the missing piece.

888

Okay.

889

Yes.

890

That's that was great because this

whole time I'm like, wait, I know how

891

much you juggle and how much you do.

892

And I'm like, wait, what is it about?

893

What's the mystery behind this room?

894

And that's what it is.

895

The kids making the decisions.

896

, I feel like I now I have

clarity over the path.

897

interested.

898

Ashley: Awesome.

899

Sara: Ashley.

900

I appreciate

901

Ashley: Yeah.

902

Lacey: Thank you.

903

Ashley: Thank you guys.

904

And I'll talk

905

Lacey: Yeah.

906

Mhm.

907

Mhm.

908

Sara: That was our first

of three participants.

909

So episode one, participant one

for season two, no shame in the

910

home game, Ashley, very exciting.

911

We will get more into her journey in

episode two of Ashley, but first we're

912

going to meet our other two participants.

913

So don't forget about Ashley,

but just put a little bookmark

914

there on that chapter and we will,

we'll follow up more with her.

915

Lacey: I like to think of

it as like a cliffhanger.

916

what's gonna happen?

917

Build

918

the suspense!

919

Sara: That does make sense because I know

your brain works a little bit by now makes

920

sense that you're like, it's a cliffhanger

Whereas I'm seeing it more as okay,

921

let's bring in these other characters.

922

Okay, let's build let's compare and

contrast however, you want to see it

923

just Remember Ashley's journey and then

we're gonna meet two other journeys

924

And like we always said, we don't think

everything's going to resonate with

925

everybody, but you're going to find some

aspect that you're going to relate to.

926

And then that's what you can take

away and apply in your own home.

927

So even though you may not have four kids

and all those dogs and chickens and cat,

928

Lacey: Yes.

929

Sara: you might have something from

the solutions that we talk through

930

that will be applicable to your home.

931

Lacey: Great.

932

Agreed.

933

Sarah, we like to talk about our

like moment of gratitude at the

934

end of every episode, and so.

935

I'm gonna ask you to go first, cause I'm

having a little bit of a flustered day,

936

and maybe you going first will help me.

937

Sara: Anyone who's listening

might have seen that we've

938

done Joy and Bagels a couple times.

939

And I've had more than a handful of

people ask me for the bagel recipe.

940

And rather than explaining it individually

each time somebody asked me, I

941

decided I'm just going to

make a reel for Instagram.

942

And what I was really happy about,

like my moment of gratitude is that I

943

did not get hung up on the production.

944

I'm like leaning into just

that moving, stumbling forward

945

before I would have done multiple

takes and edited and just done it over.

946

Oh, this is from you.

947

Lacey's rubbing off on me.

948

This is what this is.

949

and I just thought, I really

am just trying to get how to do

950

this recipe out into the world.

951

It really doesn't matter

this production value.

952

honestly, like if only these five people

or six people have asked me for it,

953

watch it, they'll get what they need to

out of it, But I was proud of myself.

954

I was like, Oh, I think that's the

quickest way I've ever made a real.

955

And I've been doing this for years now.

956

So I am thankful that I am

embracing moving forward

957

without focusing on perfection.

958

Lacey: I love hearing that I do.

959

People, I saw that post, and I had

this moment where I was like, take,

960

I should take down notes, because

I want to make your bagels too.

961

Sara: They're so easy.

962

I didn't have enough time.

963

Cause you only get 90 seconds, but I

wanted to emphasize, I am not a baker.

964

These are the easiest bagels.

965

that you'll ever make.

966

They are so forgiving.

967

Lacey: And

968

They're high in That's the nice thing.

969

Good.

970

Sara: And then I'll get, when I

get out the frozen ones and I'm

971

like, Oh, time to make a new batch.

972

And then I'll make another double batch.

973

So they freeze really well.

974

Lacey: like That is a good,

I love forward momentum.

975

That's that's just something

that one of my favorite things.

976

So I love that you were having that.

977

I have a very silly one and

we're just going to lean into it.

978

I'm loving my bangs.

979

I cut my own bangs, like

what, three weeks ago now?

980

And the past two days I have perfected

them in a way that is really hitting my

981

self confidence for the positive a lot.

982

I feel, I've always wanted that Bridget

Bardot, So back but messy and pretty

983

and she's just French and that's how she

looks and I don't know if that's what

984

I actually Look but that's what I feel

like so I'm feeling great about my bangs

985

Sara: Yay.

986

It is fun.

987

You look so much, to me, I perceive

you as way more playful, which

988

is funny cause you're already a

hundred percent playful, but the

989

bangs are even more like sassy town

990

a little bit.

991

I am here to mix it up.

992

You just wait and see.

993

Lacey: sister in law yesterday

was like your bangs are Bang it.

994

She's those bangs are banging.

995

I'm like, heck yeah, they're banging.

996

I'm feeling it.

997

I'm feeling good.

998

Just, it's so funny how, because

it's really, for a long time, my

999

dear friend Emma, who was, did my

hair and is a stylist, she was like,

Laci, you're too lazy for bangs.

But she is correct.

I am too lazy for bangs.

But, I have found lazy

ways to handle the bangs.

And the good thing about these,

they're like, mid parted What's

the word that I'm looking for?

I don't know.

They get to be messy.

that's they can get in

your eyes a little bit.

They don't have to sit right.

They're not like the side

swoop that has to be perfect.

they can be messy.

And there's something about

that I'm just really loving

Sara: There's sort of all natural meets,

like I said in the beginning, playful.

So yeah, there's no one

way that they have to be.

And so they, there's

just some, there's play.

Lacey: There's magic in it.

Sara: I want to tell you, we should

have a prompt on social media.

What's something your

hairdresser has told you.

So my hairdresser, one day

she totally called me out.

So Lacey can see, I've always had one

side that's longer than the other side.

And I've had one side really short before,

like very short, but this is always long.

And one day she called this my

will be blanket, the long side.

She goes, I know we can never

get rid of your will be blanket.

And I was like, that is correct.

I'm not even offended that you

called it a will be blanket.

I, cause she really wants

me to go shorter all over,

which I think she's right.

I think it probably would look

good, but this feels safe to me.

Lacey: Okay, feel good in?

Curtain bangs.

That's what they're called.

Middle parted curtain bangs.

There we go.

That are a little wispy in the middle.

That's what I, and I cut them myself,

but yeah, I like your woobie blanket.

I totally, I get it.

I get it.

Sara: so I'm going to put that out there.

If anybody wants to tag us on social

media with, this is what my hairdresser

told me, I would love to hear, I

would love to hear some funny stories.

Lacey: I will say, again, dear friend

Emma, she's messaged me and she was

like, those banks look real good.

You did a good job.

So I feel validation that too.

So we're on the same

page about them now too.

Sara: Wait, that hashtag

I said was too long.

Hashtag hairdresser.

What's a good one?

Hairdresser talk.

Hairdresser truths.

Yes.

Hairdresser truths.

Hashtag.

do like a story or a post or something.

Threads, Instagram, TikTok.

And then, yeah, do hashtag hairdresser

truth and tell us what yours said to you.

That was oddly on

point.

Lacey: yeah, thank you, as always, Sarah,

for your energy and delightfulness.

Next week, our participants will

meet Teresa, and get to learn a

little bit more about her story.

But until then, go out

there, spread some joy.

Sara: Spread some joy.

Thank you, Lacey, for making it happen.

Thank you.

Lacey: Sarah