Welcome to sharing the middle, where we shared the messy middles

2

of life and our stories to be able

to make each other feel heard and

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seen and all of those good things.

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So I'm Lacey, your friend

in the middle and guide.

5

Who's claim to fame this week is.

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Really getting back into podcasting

again, and it's been a delight.

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I've really enjoyed it.

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this episode, we are jumping back

into the episodes where we're

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talking to people in my life.

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and learning about me and conversation.

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Starting in our next episode in

two weeks, we'll get back to doing.

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The traditional middle interviews,

we'll just alternate as we go.

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chronic illness tends to me in that I can

only do so much I'm doing the best I can.

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I wish that there was a little

more consistency, but hopefully

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that's cool with you all.

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Just a quick PSA that this is coming

out in the first week of July and

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July is disability pride month.

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I really encourage you to do some

research about disability this month,

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because if you've listened to any part

of my story, You know that I did not

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expect to be someone who was disabled

at this point in my life, but here I am.

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The disability community is

a minority that you could

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literally join at any moment.

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And so I think you should care about it,

even if it's just that minimum thing.

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All right.

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we're about to jump into a conversation

between me and two of my nieces.

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It's a delight to invite

them and I'm just so excited.

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By the women that they're

turning out to be.

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All right, let's jump right in.

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I'm here with my two oldest nieces.

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They're the ones that are over 18.

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I have other nieces who are

lovely and wonderful, and I would

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love to hear their perspectives.

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But they're under 18.

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And that makes me feel weird.

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So I'm here with Brhi.

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Hi Brhi.

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Brhi: Hi..

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Lacey: And Grace.

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Hi

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Grace.

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Grace just graduated from high school this

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Grace: Yes.

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Lacey: And Brhi is twenty?

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Brhi: Yes, I'm 20.

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Lacey: Just to give an idea.

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Brhi is also the oldest

grandchild in our family.

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And Grace is next.

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place.

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It's okay, you're the oldest in your

family and that means something it

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does what I'm trying to do with sharing

the middle is tell my story through

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conversations with people in my life

because I find that I learn more about

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myself through the lens of other people

and, it's been really good for me so far.

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So since you two are my nieces and

being an aunt is a big part of my life.

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I wanted to

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talk to you.

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I figured we could just

start with jokingly.

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I know, well, , not jokingly you

guys said I was the cool aunt.

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I would love to hear more about that.

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Grace: How do I do this

without incriminating myself?

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Brhi: I feel like you are the

one who is like closer to our

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age, and we just, I don't know,

we can relate more to you,

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Grace: And you didn't have

kids for a longer time.

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Like when we were old enough to

develop the idea of a coolest aunt,

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everybody else had kids and I'm not

saying you can't be cool and have kids

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because you have kids and you are so

cool, but it's just, in the mind of

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a child who can't think about complex

things, you have time to devote to me.

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Therefore you're

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cool.

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Lacey: they all had young

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kids the same age.

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I'm really not that much younger.

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but everybody, I'm only

five years younger than Rob.

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But because everybody else had kids.

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and got married so young, it makes

it seem like I'm so much younger.

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I've been with Joe since I was 21.

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I've been with Joe for 14 years.

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So

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in

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the grand, scheme of the world, I still

was very young but yeah, so I do feel

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like I probably spent more time with you

guys without other children, other than

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each other and like that kind of stuff.

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And I think I, also was in a

place where you guys were a little

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older.

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and so I got to spend a little bit more

one on one time with you because, not

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that I don't love everyone, I don't want

that to sound like it, but after, really

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after Aiden, like everybody I feel like

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is

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one right after each other in age

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Grace: Especially with my

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brothers, it's

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Lacey: yeah.

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Grace: are two

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Brhi: now.

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There's two

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Grace: Yeah.

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Brhi: more,

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Lacey: Yeah, so I feel like I've

done more one on one stuff with

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you guys too, because, It's a lot

easier to be a good aunt because

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I don't think I'm a good aunt.

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And I think maybe because, another

episode I want to do is I'm going to

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talk to Candy and Carol, because I'm

like, they're the best aunts ever.

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And I do not mean that they're standard.

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like I know I've done a little

bit of fun stuff with each of you.

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but not to the same level.

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Grace: I also think a part of a cool

aunt is Not as much the one on one time,

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just like doing cool things outside.

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as I can see your life, or like what

I had heard about your life before

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I had social media, I can be like,

oh my gosh, she did this, and she,

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she works with like college, she works

at a college, that's really cool, when

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you're like a little kid and don't

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have,

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any idea of that kind of

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Lacey: Yeah.

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you care about

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education and stuff.

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Grace: true.

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Lacey: I feel like Grace and

I are very similar in our

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academic achievement desires.

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Brhi: design.

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Yeah,

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I'm so proud of you.

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Lacey: I distinctly remember

both of you being born.

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I don't know if you know that I was there.

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I was there.

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Yeah.

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I was in, my freshman year, I

want to say it was geometry class.

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And the secretary came in of the

school, didn't send somebody else.

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the secretary, she came, it's time.

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And I'm like,

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Grace: What?

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They didn't call on the

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Lacey: no, she came in

and it was very good.

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Because Brie was being born

and got me out of class

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Brhi: I was

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Lacey: You

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were her!

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yeah, and, your mom, when she was

having you, Grace, is a core memory

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for me of knowing that I wanted

an epidural when I had a child.

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Brhi: Oh gosh!

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Lacey: Because I distinctly remember

before she had the epidural and after.

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And they were very different people.

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ha!

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Grace: enough.

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Lacey: so let me say it back and

you guys can, so not necessarily my

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coolant ness is from our interactions,

but from the way that I live my life.

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Grace: Yeah.

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That I think that has a big

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Brhi: big me.

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I agree.

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Lacey: Yeah.

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okay.

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Okay.

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Which is so funny because I don't think

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I'm interesting.

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Grace: I'm

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not going to speak anymore.

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I don't want to throw people out.

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I don't want to like shade

people unnecessarily.

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Lacey: No, you can say, so it's

just, so that's one of the things

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that I'm learning, is you're allowed

to say objective facts and truth.

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You know

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what I mean?

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So it's not putting anyone down,

it's just the reality of, yeah.

164

Yeah.

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Grace: I just think what you

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do, or did,

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even now do,

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is cooler to a kid than

working a desk job or, being a

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secretary.

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And there's nothing wrong with any

of, we need people to do those things,

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but it's just, as a kid, it's oh, I

want to do, And you went to Disney

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when I was young, and I don't think

I'd gone, or something like that.

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I was like, wow, she does cool things.

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that's big, dual income, no kids.

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You can do a lot of cool things,

and I can hear about it and be

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like, oh my gosh, that's so awesome.

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I want to do that,

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Brhi: I've heard, my mom always used

to tell me, she's be like Aunt Lacey.

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Don't get married young,

go travel, go do things.

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Lacey: I did it.

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is

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funny because I don't

feel like I've done all

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that much.

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okay.

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Yeah.

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I do think it points to that I've always

been just a little bit different than

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my siblings in a lot of ways where,

Career has always been really important

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to me and I like talking about it and

I want to, do those kinds of things.

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And I did, it took me a while to

know that I wanted to have kids.

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which

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is always something that

everyone jokes about.

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It's because everybody didn't know if I

was going to have kids because I was so

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Brhi: Grace.

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Lacey: true.

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But

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we

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Grace: cause I was so That's true.

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She's gonna change her

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Brhi: And Grammy's she's gonna

change her mind, it's gonna happen.

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Lacey: you may not.

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See, that's where, I don't know, I

think maybe I also lean a little bit

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more towards, open minded thinking.

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Not that they're closed minded,

but I think I have a little

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bit broader view of the world.

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And because of that, I'm like,

yeah, if you don't choose

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to have kids, good for you.

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Brhi: the amount of Money,

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you will have.

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Lacey: sanity.

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Brhi: Yeah.

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Grace: I wanna be able to give, I

wanna be like, when Maggie sees me

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or when Brie sees me, I want them to

be like, oh my gosh, grace is here.

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They can take my kids for a weekend.

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And I know she'll like, they'll be

safe with her, they'll be fine with her

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and I can go relax and get a weekend

off or go travel with my spouse.

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give them some peace of

mind so that they know.

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Do you wanna Yes, aunt.

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I,

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I want to be a doctor and make

oodles of money and take my brother's

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kids around the world and or pay

for them, help pay for them to do

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that things with like their parents

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and

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Lacey: yeah, Yeah,

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cool.

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Grace: I Want to provide experiences

to like other people's kids because

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I don't really care to have my

own I don't want to deal with the

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Lacey: the everyday.

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Well, see what

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I think is really cool

about that is that you're

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not like, ooh, kids are

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gross.

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It's that I love kids, but I

know the realm that I want to be

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in their

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life, and

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Grace: yeah, I love them and I

would like to give them at a point.

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Lacey: I don't know if you've ever

heard me say this, is I used to think

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I liked kids, and then I had nieces and

nephews, and I realized I didn't like

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Brhi: We're the problem.

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We are

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Lacey: I

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didn't know the reality of kids.

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Really, you

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guys.

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And I, spent a lot of time with you all.

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And it's not, again, not that I don't

love you very much, because I do.

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But I knew too much.

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Brhi: Oh yeah, and there's a lot of us.

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So it's just like

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Lacey: what is it like growing up with,

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being, You all can see where I'm at in the

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Ludwig family.

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We're on Ludwig family vacation right now.

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but I feel like you all are

very tight together age wise.

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I feel like we did a lot of stuff

growing while you guys were growing up.

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We don't do as much anymore, but,

what was that experience like?

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Grace: a Highlight.

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Brhi: Highlight.

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sure.

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I love

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it.

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For sure.

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I love thinking about like

the things that we used to do.

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It makes me a little sad.

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I'm a very traditional so I like

how we used to all go pick pumpkins

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and cut down Grammy and Pop's

Christmas tree and stuff like that.

266

Those things I miss, but I know

everybody's a little more spread out than

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we were before, but it was really fun.

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Grace: I attribut alot of myself

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. Being the second oldest, Brie and I,

oldest and second oldest, would like

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have to kind of, you know, herd the, herd

the cats, just deal with them, and there

271

was always, for a year or two, it was

like, oh my gosh, there's another one,

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there's another one, there's another,

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and I just love how close we are.

274

my boyfriend is 40 people,

but and a lot of them are my

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cousins, and I love that so much.

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it is my favorite thing

in the entire world.

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Oh

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Brhi: yeah.

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Lacey: Inside, outside perspective

of, their family, but they're

280

also friends, and it's an

interesting role that they fill.

281

So you would say, one, I would

guess, that you definitely had that.

282

Brhi: Oh, yeah, for sure.

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I would not Like I love

every some of them really

284

get on

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my nerves sometimes.

286

But I

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Grace: And I feel so weird being like,

oh my cousin, you hang out, it's like a

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foreign concept.

289

like

290

Maggie, my best friend, her

cousins don't live super close

291

and she's not close with them.

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And although mine don't live

close, we are like this.

293

Ava said something, she's like, all right,

the 20 minute awkward period is over.

294

And then she's so right.

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it's awkward for 20 minutes at

the beginning, and then bam, we're

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inseparable,

297

Which

298

is

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like so cool.

300

Brhi: is.

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And I think that, I don't know, I like

to brag about, like, how big my one of

302

my things

303

I take pride in, and I just love that

everybody personality, and things

304

they like to do, and it's just so

cool to see everybody's perspective.

305

Lacey: That's interesting.

306

I never, so part of the reason why

I said that I always wanted kids

307

and that kind of stuff is 'cause I

liked being part of a big family too.

308

And then I was around kids.

309

I love you guys

310

very much you know that's, but

then I was like, oh, maybe I

311

don't wanna have much kids.

312

It, I'll be honest, I'm a

little sad hearing you guys

313

talk 'cause I know my kids

314

aren't gonna have the same experience

'cause they're so much younger.

315

Yeah.

316

Brhi: we're still Like

for sure, there's no way.

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my traditions, there's no way I'm gonna

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Lacey: way I'm going to do what happened.

319

I know.

320

And I will say, when you and

Tim came over, afterwards,

321

I was like, You know what?

322

He genuinely played with my kids.

323

he didn't just, show up and,

skulk around in the background.

324

okay, I

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Brhi: Yeah!

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I know.

327

Lacey: he, he, tried.

328

And I think that's the big

thing of, People who try.

329

Brhi: Yeah.

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The thing he, with him, he

sometimes just tries too hard.

331

,and I'm like,

332

you gotta chill a little bit.

333

Love you so much.

334

But just, I know you're trying.

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Lacey: has it been difficult to acclimate?

336

'cause both of you have boyfriends

who have started coming around.

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Is it hard to acclimate

them to all of that?

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We are.

339

Brhi: think.

340

There's certain things that are

like, yeah, we don't do that.

341

nothing big, but, I don't know, I think,

especially Tim doesn't come from a super

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close family, you guys go on vacation?

343

Like, all of you in this big house?

344

And, I don't know, but I think it's fun.

345

having, to, reintroduce to, was fun to

just see how big our much it's growing

346

Grace: I would agree with that.

347

I think I also take my familiarity

with Jack, my boyfriend, for granted.

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Cause for my grad party, I

introduced him to two people.

349

It

350

didn't occur to me.

351

It didn't occur to me, but oh,

I need to sit here and be like,

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Hi, this is my boyfriend, Jack.

353

We've been dating for a year and a half.

354

it was just so weird to do that.

355

but I, he's not here this year, but

I really want him to come next year.

356

And I, really look forward to that.

357

I've looked forward to that, sharing

this experience with someone, being like,

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Oh my gosh, so this is, this is Carol.

359

I love her so much.

360

She's loud,

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and

362

we play

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cards, and it's amazing.

364

And like, when we were sitting at

Nat and PJ's wedding, I was like, I

365

want Jack here just to listen to all

these stories of, the people around

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me, because that's my favorite thing

to do, is just, sit and take in

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information, and hear these stories,

and laugh, and that kind of stuff.

368

And I'm really excited to

share that with someone.

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Lacey: I think that's something both

of you do a lot, and I've noticed,

370

is you sit and you listen and

you, take in all the information.

371

Brhi: sure.

372

Yeah.

373

I feel the same way.

374

there's just this is one of my favorite

times of vacation and I just wanted to

375

And yeah, I love listening

376

I want them to go through

generations like Bop Pop stories.

377

They just travel through generations and

I just, they might be the craziest story,

378

but I have to sit and listen to them.

379

I

380

feel like Bop Pop just needs to write

a book of all of his old stories.

381

So we'll have

382

forever.

383

Lacey: shot himself in the foot, that's my

384

favorite one to bring up.

385

Yes, that's one of my Anytime

somebody says, you shoot

386

yourself in the foot with that,

387

I'm like, my dad actually

did shoot himself in

388

the foot.

389

So that doesn't

390

quite

391

work here.

392

Brhi: I

393

Grace: story that I wish

Jack heard, they PJ's

394

wedding, was Rob's Christmas

a couple years ago.

395

Boom.

396

, I was listening to that

and learning new things.

397

I was like, oh, I wish, so I need somebody

398

else to

399

be

400

experiencing

401

this for the first time.

402

That's hilarious.

403

And to have that be like, the first

thing they hear about Rob would be so

404

Brhi: cause that's so

opposite of Rob's personality.

405

Lacey: Something that you guys started

talking about is something that I've

406

been very aware of and I've seen a lot

lately, is that things are changing.

407

How do you feel about that?

408

And what, maybe first

let me just step back.

409

What does that look like to you?

410

Because I feel it, but I want to

hear it from your perspectives.

411

Grace: I don't like it.

412

I'm not a very traditionalist kind of

person, but like when it comes to my

413

lud weight, like you don't touch that.

414

You don't touch that

with the 10 foot pole.

415

Yes.

416

Like that stays exactly how

it's been since I've been born

417

and

418

before.

419

And you don't change that.

420

Brhi: I

421

know other

422

Grace: things can change, but not that,

423

Brhi: that's

424

fair this past christmas without

grandma to dave and julie's

425

like it was so nice But like I

426

be

427

a

428

grandma.

429

I didn't feel like christmas really

because we didn't go to grandma's And I

430

know we everybody came to bop and grammy's

afterwards, but or the next day But sad.

431

I think everybody was I feel like we

are growing though, so have to change.

432

I feel like, 'cause

433

I brought Tim, I feel like

434

I

435

shouldn't be

436

Lacey: I

437

Grace: should

438

Lacey: Brhi's I should shut

439

Grace: up.

440

But you're not the first person

441

to bring a spouse though.

442

I

443

feel like

444

it, if it was like something wild,

I don't know, I don't know what

445

would be wild for bringing

446

a spouse, but like

447

Lacey: Although I heard

that Grammy said no

448

Brhi: She did say no.

449

She was like, I don't wanna

mess up the cousin dynamic.

450

And I feel like that

was part of the reason.

451

I don't know if it was

the full reason, but it

452

might've been.

453

but I respected that and I was like, I

454

don't,

455

I'm

456

gonna be

457

driving

458

there and back by myself

'cause I have to leave early.

459

Yeah.

460

And she.

461

I was like, okay, I'm gonna see if

somebody can, and, take you back.

462

And I was like, okay, that's fine.

463

I didn't suggest the idea because

I know she wasn't too fond of it.

464

they called me and told me I could

bring him and I was like, okay.

465

Of

466

course I was, like, really excited, but

I didn't want to make it feel like I

467

was trying to pressure Grammy in a way.

468

And I felt

469

Lacey: like that you were playing

470

Brhi: Yeah, I

471

felt a

472

little guilty.

473

Lacey: okay, so we're growing.

474

So that's something obviously

we lost grandma last year,

475

which really did change a lot.

476

And I know for me that I saw that

too, because the way I described it is

477

oh, she was like a tent pole for us.

478

And then without that gone, we're

all just flapping in the wind.

479

But we're figuring it out.

480

We're making it.

481

Brhi: we're

482

Lacey: Why other things have changed?

483

Do you feel like

484

have changed?

485

Brhi: I feel like

486

Grace: I think this year's a little

better than last year because

487

I never realized how important

it was to have a central table.

488

Oh my goodness.

489

Because like last year we had a

little picnic table and some like

490

tables scattered in different areas

491

and like it was good.

492

Everyone had

493

a place

494

to eat and

495

Lacey: But it was two sides of a house

496

Grace: exactly.

497

It was like four small tables.

498

Pretty separated.

499

So I really like the return to form

of having one big table where we can

500

play different games at different

places and get everybody involved.

501

I really like that big table

502

again.

503

Brhi: I feel like, yeah,

I definitely feel better

504

I feel like dynamics are

changing a little bit.

505

Like everybody, like all of your

cousins, they have their own own thing.

506

I remember when, Nat and Lydia

and Emily and, you would all

507

just like go into the ocean.

508

And come out

509

with us for an hour and maybe 30 minutes.

510

But now that they have kids,

they're running around on the beach

511

Lacey: you and stuff like that.

512

things.

513

I will say, I saw you all out in the ocean

yesterday, all of you, and I just had

514

this moment of, oh, I loved doing that.

515

It was so fun to just

516

be in the waves, and then one

would come, and someone would go

517

under, and it was just so much fun.

518

yeah, I was happy for you.

519

I just know that if I went

out there I would not be able

520

to move the rest of the day.

521

Grace: way.

522

That's out

523

Lacey: rough.

524

Yeah.

525

And I, one of my favorite things in the

world is that feeling of when a swell

526

hits you and you feel weightless for

527

a moment.

528

That's one of my favorite

feelings in the world.

529

But, yeah, I can't fight, I can

barely fight the sand walking down

530

Grace: That's so fair.

531

Brhi: I just think there's

some have to get used to it.

532

As everybody gets older, they find,

whoever their spouse is, or if they're

533

going to have a spouse, if they decide

to have kids, things are just going to

534

naturally change, which, it's going to

be uncomfy, but I feel like it's just

535

Lacey: it's just something we're

going to have to get used to.

536

I want to go on vacation.

537

I want to make it work.

538

That's

539

huge.

540

And that's why Mom, but grammy for you.

541

She was like, she wants to come

she wants to make it happen We

542

want to help make that happen.

543

So I just I hope you guys

see that you do have power in

544

that.

545

Brhi: I just don't, I hate,

the feeling I don't want to

546

Grace: Yeah, I don't

like asserting myself.

547

Brhi: of, no.

548

Lacey: want to take advantage of, no.

549

I want us to be together.

550

That is my goal here.

551

This is how I'm going.

552

That's

553

different than saying, my goal

is to get my boyfriend to come.

554

and you're allowed to have, you can

have more than one motive, right?

555

but the main motive, if the main one

that you're going for is that for people

556

to be together, I think you'll be okay.

557

Brhi: I also feel I don't know,

everybody just gets along really well.

558

I'm really happy.

559

It makes my heart happy.

560

Tim gets along with all the cousins,

along really well with all the cousins.

561

Carol was the first person to sit down and

562

talk with him, of course.

563

I just,

564

coming

565

together a little bit.

566

It

567

makes me happy.

568

Lacey: definitely like a trial by fire

569

Brhi: Oh, That's what I feel

570

like.

571

I feel

572

Lacey: like I'm

573

Brhi: just the little lab rat right now.

574

And I'm like,

575

Lacey: If

576

someone

577

doesn't work, we know.

578

Yeah.

579

I

580

Brhi: I'm

581

so

582

Lacey: to me and be

583

Brhi: to me and be like, get him out.

584

Lacey: say

585

that.

586

They'll just be like, oh.

587

do the Grammy.

588

He's nice,

589

Brhi: and

590

then say anything else.

591

Yeah.

592

Grace: Grammy.

593

That's what

594

I

595

mean

596

by

597

Brhi: get

598

Lacey: him out.

599

That's Yep.

600

The

601

other

602

day I called something interesting and

Joe looked at me and he was like, Is

603

it interesting like your mom would say

604

it's interesting?

605

Or is it actually interesting?

606

I'm like, no, it's

actually, I'm genuinely,

607

I

608

Brhi: interested

609

in it.

610

Lacey: I apologize.

611

I was

612

Brhi: not

613

clear.

614

Grace: It side eye interesting, or

615

both eyes interesting?

616

He's oh, or oh.

617

Lacey: Actually, genuinely interesting.

618

Thank you.

619

I want to know more about it.

620

Interesting.

621

Not, I want to know

622

less about it.

623

so I don't know.

624

I just, I hope you know that.

625

because at the end of the

day, you know that's all she

626

Brhi: Oh, I know.

627

as

628

possible.

629

Yes,

630

I know.

631

And I know she's, I feel like Grammy's

kind of the same way with some things.

632

She's very like she likes her traditions,

and she, doesn't want much to change

633

and I understood that completely.

634

but I do, I love the fact that

635

Lacey: I was, so this morning

he came upstairs, and I

636

was like, oh, you're a golfer.

637

And he was like, yeah.

638

And I was like, I'm like, oh, you didn't,

I, there was a lot behind that you don't

639

understand of the golfers is a big deal.

640

And also you're going without

brie, so you don't have the buffer.

641

So

642

Grace: you better, you better, be

good enough because you might be out

643

there

644

without

645

your

646

Brhi: on.

647

That's exactly

648

what

649

I warned

650

them.

651

I was like, you have to play

at least better than one

652

person.

653

Or you're going to

654

be out in the

655

Grace: I told Jack, I was like, if you

come and if you want to golf, because

656

he's been in like a big golfing kick

recently, I was like, you better be good

657

enough unless you want to be out there

658

and take

659

your trunks off.

660

Like I'm giving you forewarning,

like a year's warning.

661

Brhi: Yes.

662

if

663

you

664

Grace: want

665

to

666

go play

667

Lacey: Don't, don't make

a bet you're gonna regret.

668

Yeah, you're gonna regret it.

669

You can do you guys were talking a

little bit earlier and I'm gonna be nosy.

670

So do you guys have like a group, like

a chat that's just constantly going

671

or?

672

Grace

673

Brhi: is the worst texter.

674

Okay.

675

Lacey: I

676

know.

677

Grace doesn't

678

Brhi: awful at texting.

679

every once in a

680

while, me and Ava will text

We have a group chat, and I

681

think Belle might be in it.

682

We need to

683

put Millie

684

There's a

685

whole cousin one.

686

It's not.

687

We used to play Among Us in it, though.

688

That's

689

used to happen.

690

But, Everyone's gonna

always say something.

691

I know I snap

692

Snapchat

693

Grace and

694

Ava

695

and Belle sometimes,

696

but

697

I'm

698

I reply.

699

You do reply!

700

I don't think so.

701

She

702

does.

703

Ava lost ours and I'm petty

704

about

705

it.

706

But

707

it's

708

fine.

709

I have four of them anyways,

so not that big of a deal.

710

but Yeah, we try to.

711

Sometimes

712

it's hard when people don't respond.

713

Grace: Listen, I

714

Brhi: sent

715

Grace this sweet text for her graduation.

716

It was like, I'm so proud of you.

717

You're going to do so amazing things.

718

I've always looked up to

you because you just are so

719

career motivated and I can't wait to see

720

Grace: what

721

you I can't look you in the eye.

722

Brhi: And she never

723

Lacey: responded.

724

Oh yeah.

725

No, I sent her when

she got her scholarship

726

officially.

727

And

728

I was like, oh my gosh,

I'm so proud of you.

729

I don't think you realize how

much this means as far as like

730

setting yourself up financially.

731

We, I don't have student

loan debt because of this.

732

And because of that's how Joe and

I were able to buy a house and da.

733

Silence.

734

Brhi: Yeah.

735

Grace: Sorry

736

guys.

737

Lacey: I'll

738

Grace: I'll

739

see it and be like, oh, I need

I need to respond to this.

740

I need to set aside thinking time

to like, make a good response.

741

And then I

742

Lacey: Your brothers are the same too.

743

I sent them something and nothing.

744

I'm like,

745

Brhi: so funny.

746

I'm like, is she mad at me?

747

And then I'm always like,

that's the way Grace's

748

Lacey: I being too much?

749

Grace: that's exactly

750

Lacey: I

751

Brhi: what I was thinking.

752

I'm like,

753

Lacey: like,

754

We

755

are close, but we're not a

very, emotionally affectionate

756

Brhi: family.

757

Oh no.

758

No.

759

So

760

Lacey: curious of what you

guys all think about, um,

761

Brhi: I have always.

762

appreciated it, but there's also

just some things, it goes unspoken.

763

And I think that, I love yous

and stuff go unspoken a lot.

764

And in my, like with my dad and my my

dad makes I love I asked him one time

765

So with Bop Up and Grammy and

stuff, I started doing that.

766

I I felt weird at first, but I was

like, ah, they know I love them.

767

I give them hugs always.

768

And I feel like.

769

Grammy loves

770

very emotionally like I wouldn't

say closed off just like some

771

netting just filter some things out.

772

With Tim, I just say what I'm feeling.

773

And I feel like, I can be a little bit of

774

And, I don't like people touching me, and

I don't like people hugging me, like, I

775

have to give you mental permission in my

776

mind

777

before you touch

778

me.

779

You're

780

speaking my

781

language.

782

Lacey: In general, don't give me a

783

Brhi: Yeah, no.

784

Oh,

785

yeah,

786

I'm the same way.

787

When one of the cousins comes up,

like, Grace, obviously, it's fine.

788

Some of them, like I don't know,

some of them are just like,

789

Oh, Xander's giving me a hug.

790

Like, I love it.

791

I'm just taken a little surprised by

792

it.

793

And

794

I'm

795

like, okay.

796

Some things I do appreciate.

797

We slide.

798

But there's some bigger

things I do wish we talked

799

a little more about.

800

And we're able

801

Lacey: I'm going to come back to that,

802

Grace: I'm going to first.

803

I'm not going to lie, I

never really noticed it.

804

Maybe that's just because

I live so far away.

805

And I get such brief windows into,

your all's daily interaction with each

806

other, because you live a lot closer

807

to each other.

808

But I feel, and I also think that I've

had it more through the lens of the

809

cousins.

810

And I think, especially the girls,

we're a lot more open with each

811

other.

812

That's very Like, nothing goes unsaid when

813

it's,

814

especially,

815

yeah, when it's us.

816

I'd never really, it's not as much in

the forefront of my mind when it comes

817

Brhi: That's true.

818

I feel like with the we just

say what we're thinking.

819

And then like, when we start going

820

we just start going up, we're just

like, Okay, we need to be a little,

821

little more, keep it in a little more.

822

Which I feel like that's

just, Sometimes it's common

823

Grace: sense.

824

That's just adding a

825

filter to my,

826

Brhi: pocket thing.

827

Grace: Yeah,

828

Brhi: I mean

829

like emotional stuff, just

830

Lacey: I find this so interesting

because I agree, let me just say, but I

831

also, but we like, don't talk about it.

832

We don't talk about the fact that there

are things that we don't talk about.

833

And

834

we, and I've always wondered, I'm

like, does everybody else notice

835

this?

836

Is it

837

just

838

me?

839

And I think, And I say this

lovingly, you're not as emotional.

840

And so I wonder if that's

why you don't see it.

841

Is that I am very,

842

on

843

the

844

scale of emotion, I am probably

the highest one of my siblings.

845

Becky's in there.

846

but I wouldn't say that

you're on that scale.

847

I could definitely see you being on

that scale and that kind of thing.

848

And so I wonder if that's why.

849

I feel like Brie where it's like

850

I have learned so heavily to

851

filter.

852

Yeah.

853

But I'm trying to, I don't

know if you can notice.

854

I'm trying to get

855

Brhi: get in there

856

Lacey: some

857

places and I

858

think

859

Brhi: Grammy

860

said one time, oh yeah, for

861

sure.

862

Grammy said one time, she's

like, Brie, you're so Articulate

863

in the way you say things and I

864

was like, I'm kind of

865

Lacey: of

866

scared.

867

Oh my Brhi you so

868

good

869

at

870

it, though.

871

ask Brhi

872

a

873

question

874

and

875

you would think she is in, in

front of Congress testifying.

876

She says the

877

perfect amount of

878

information

879

without

880

giving

881

too much.

882

I'm like, damn it.

883

Brhi: damn it.

884

I was

885

Lacey: get a little messy, and

she did not have it happen.

886

even

887

Brhi: then, I say something

that you guys are like,

888

okay, that's

889

Lacey: good, and

890

I'm

891

like,

892

I

893

Brhi: shared too

894

much.

895

Grace: Wild.

896

Brhi: What

897

Lacey: we talk about?

898

Brhi: I feel like, just, there's

899

just certain things.

900

I

901

can't

902

think of like certain subjects.

903

There's just certain things that you

do not talk about until brings it up.

904

You don't say it

905

Lacey: Yeah.

906

Brhi: have a good divorces.

907

I feel like some people just don't

have the, they don't have that

908

relationship with my dad, which is fair.

909

Cause everybody was so young and

910

olsen came up to me one

911

day and was like, You

just, you don't have a dad.

912

And I was like, I do have a dad.

913

You just don't see

914

him.

915

I have

916

another

917

sister too.

918

Just nobody sees them because of

919

the

920

divorce.

921

And yeah, we just don't talk about it.

922

Cause I feel like, some of us identify

as Catholic, some of us don't, in

923

the Catholic church, that's that

Especially like when my mom was

924

getting like Oh, I feel the family

925

was there for her, definitely, but then

after it moved on, it just doesn't get

926

Lacey: after it on, it just

doesn't get talked about.

927

to your other grandma

928

and

929

first of all

930

I,

931

it makes

932

me

933

laugh so

934

hard to think that he

was married to bonnie in

935

any way

936

oh she is so different from him

and it's just every once while

937

i can go out and just laugh

938

but yeah, so divorce I get, and

I think a lot of it, I don't

939

know, from my perspective is I

don't want to make anybody upset.

940

but this is where, like I was

saying earlier of it's a fact

941

it happened, there's no point

in like dancing around it.

942

If it's a fact now, if I'm

coming in and being like this

943

and all that, but no, yeah, it

944

happened.

945

Yeah, it's

946

a

947

fact.

948

We're allowed to say facts.

949

Yeah.

950

Brhi: I feel like I am

who I am because of that.

951

Or, one of the reasons

I am is because of that.

952

And I think, to some extent, both

of my parents are more happy.

953

And they just did not need

to be with each other.

954

mean, I don't care talking about it.

955

I laugh about it.

956

It might be a little trauma

thing, But it's funny to

957

me.

958

Lacey: I like laughing about

traumatic things personally.

959

It

960

makes me feel better about

961

it.

962

Okay.

963

Anything else?

964

Are you, do you mean like the

dynamics between people we don't

965

Brhi: We just don't talk about, for the

longest time I did not realize Candy and

966

Carol my mom's oh yeah, they're together.

967

And I was like, it wasn't

like, I was like judging.

968

I was like, what?

969

and

970

it was me and like my eight, six year old

971

self.

972

And

973

I

974

was

975

like, makes sense.

976

But what?

977

Grace: It took me to 12.

978

Yeah.

979

Because they were all, they

were always a pair, but it was

980

Lacey: never

981

Grace: like.

982

That's not

983

normal.

984

it

985

Lacey: it is

986

normal,

987

but It's

988

not.

989

It's so normal.

990

Grace: it's, so

991

Lacey: normal

992

to us that It's so normal that

it's weird when you put a label

993

Grace: it.

994

exactly.

995

Brhi: And I feel like since

we grew up like that, we just

996

have, a better perspective.

997

perspective of things.

998

Grace: all I hate when people

are like, It's the children.

999

You're

corrupting

Lacey: the

Brhi: Oh

Grace: And I

was

like, I was a child and I saw

Lacey: nothing

wrong

with it.

you're the one who's making it weird.

that's what I've learned the

most, of like, when you talk

about it, you're making it weird.

When you make it weird, it's weird.

I actually post it on threads.

I'm like, just a friendly reminder

that pride stuff is only weird if

you are the one that makes it weird.

And it's, and I realized

actually in my conversation

with Al, that , they're happy.

They're, a, A pillar,

relationship in our family.

Brhi: I also think something that we

don't talk about how Grandma would have

reacted to all of that and I mean at

least what I saw she was just so accepting

and so loving to everybody And I never,

I don't know what originally went

down, but I just appreciated that, that

caring and loving she gave to everybody.

Grace: that caring and

loving she gave to everybody.

Yeah,

. Lacey: I agree.

we've never talked about it either.

Brhi: So it's,

pay

grade.

Yeah,

that's what I'm like, I

think

about that

sometimes, and I was like, I just

wonder how Grandma and Pawpaw

Lacey: It is funny.

There was a period of time in college,

like I hadn't brought boys around

or anything like, that, and I lived

with a roommate and Papapa was always

like, feel free to bring your roommate

Grace: They're just friends guys.

Lacey: and it took me a

little

bit later then I'm like, I think

he's trying to make it okay

for

me.

if I am bring a I'm like, no, I don't.

Trust

me, I don't like her that much, so.

my first hold onto that as a, Oh, I

think he was trying to pave the way for

Brhi: me, Oh,

Yeah,

I feel like there was such like a safe

space even though we didn't talk about

it.

people could just be who they

Lacey: do you have any like

things that you wonder about me

or that you're curious about?

Grace: I'm not good with questions.

I

neither.

Jack's like, when you go to

orientation you need to ask questions.

I was like, what if I

don't have questions?

I just don't have questions a lot of the

Brhi: Yeah.

That's

just

that.

I

don't know, how

is it growing up being the youngest?

we'll

Grace: you don't really have

Lacey: I.

Yeah,

I

have a very, different view than

everybody else because I also, I think

of myself as part youngest, part only

child, because I spent a lot of time

one on one with Grammy and Bob Pop.

And so I have.

a lot of my memories is not with

my siblings, it's with just them.

and so like when we were talking earlier

about things changing, I was still so

young when like Christmases changed.

So like I think I was like in 7th or 8th

grade and Christmases went from everybody

being at my parents house in the morning

on Christmas to being at their own houses

and that was a really hard time for me

because I'm like, but I'm still back here.

Where are we supposed to go?

And what are we supposed to do?

So that, that was hard because

I felt very stuck there.

I think, it has helped me be, A

little bit more neutral in a lot

of ways because I have less of an

investment in certain things because,

when people have kids, they disagree

on how things are going to go and

you're all stressed at the same time.

And I'm just like, I'm over here,

there's that.

but I do think that, I do feel

different than them a lot of times.

but if I had to guess, they all

feel different in their own way.

I think I'm just the one that's

allowed, is being the most loud

about how I feel different.

Grace: Fair.

Lacey: yeah.

And then also, Grace, you

mentioned oh, you guys live close.

Like I lived in Cincinnati

for most of the time.

And it's only recently that I've moved

closer, but

even that, I don't

leave

my house

much.

so like I go to

people's house.

Grace: real.

Lacey: so yeah, I, I

would say that's that.

I, I also don't know exactly why, but

There are some things that I'm just like,

nope, I'm not going to take that on.

I'm not gonna,

Brhi: fair.

Lacey: they're just some,

Brhi: that's, fair.

I don't

Lacey: if you can notice, there

are some things where people

are like talking about it.

I'm like, no, I'm not

going to worry about that.

No, thank you.

Brhi: Yeah.

I feel like there can be that pressure

sometimes of oh, you have to go do this.

You have to be here.

And it can be a lot, there's

a lot of us and Yeah.

I think, I'm trying to figure out can't

spend myself I can't go to everything.

There's a lot of still, work.

I to do other, like, I coach.

I do all these things and I just can't

be at everything, which does make me

sad because I want the family, memories

experiences and just to be able to just,

impossible sometimes is what it feels

But, and there is that pressure, I

Lacey: something we

Yeah, we don't talk about.

that.

There is a right way to show up.

Grace: Oh, yeah.

Brhi: yeah, there is definitely.

Lacey: And it's so funny when you

think about it, because I'm like,

I don't, no one's I don't even know

who would be the one who has ever

said that or given that impression.

Why do we have to feel it that way?

And that's why I have been pushing back on

some

Brhi: And that's fair.

I feel with me, I just don't want to,

disappoint I just wanna, I, my goal is

just to make people happy, and you it's

hard, I don't want to disappoint Grace

for not being somewhere because we just

chat the whole time, and I don't want

to disappoint Grammy and Bop for not

being able to show up I don't know.

But it's not, like, My life

my life is but, I don't know.

Lacey: that little bit of pressure.

No, I

Brhi: Tim?

I'm not mad.

I'm just like, a

little frustrated.

Like,

Grace: I'm a little

frustrated, like, it's, oh, the

Brhi: of pain.

I

I

Grace: I

miss you.

But I

get

Brhi: I miss you.

You know, but I

get it.

All the

girls

for the most part, except for Iris,

obviously,

are, like, they're dating somebody

And

we're all just gonna be on our

phones, and, that's what's happening.

everybody just wants to talk to their

significant other, and I understand

the dynamic was already kind of

That's why I felt a little less guilty,

because I was like, I really don't

think that much is going to change.

Of course, Tim is going to be

he

gets along, and he

plays, the games with all

the boys and stuff like that,

and I really appreciate that.

I don't know if Grammy maybe

didn't see like how it was changing

But I understand she just wanted to

and I respect

Grace: And

I think you're doing a good

job of dividing your time.

Like you're

being

very mindful of being around us and

Tim, so like you are the right person

You're

good at being mindful of

other people like that No,

you're doing a good job.

We're also day two,

Brhi: time

Grace: like down

Brhi: corner, I'm like, what am I

supposed

to be

doing?

Am I doing

something

wrong?

Lacey: I, so as you were talking,

I had this moment of realization,

I think we all respect Grammy so

Brhi: much

Oh, yeah that

Lacey: don't want to let her down

and I think we use that as a way

To like, beat ourselves up a bit

Brhi: in a

way

that

Yeah, exactly

Grammy is such like a loving and

caring nurturing person and I have

always looked up to that like I can

honestly tell you like Grammy's the

reason I want to be a mom, cause

just

watching her, like how she is

with everybody, how she takes care

of everybody, and she can bake.

She taught me how to bake, and

like I just appreciate that so

much, like I want to be Like

I want

to be the closest thing

I can get to Grammy,

I feel like, I don't know if it's just me.

I feel like everybody might feel

just Grammy is just Like an angel.