Doing it Her Way with Josi Dumont

Welcome to sharing the middle.

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Where we share our stories

of the messy middle of life.

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I'm Lacy, your friend and

guide through the middle.

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My claim to fame this week is for my

family to survive COVID and travel.

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And travel back because of COVID it's

been a bit of a week, but it's okay.

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We're here.

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We're we're doing it and we're fine.

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If you're a longtime listener,

then you'll hear the music in

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the beginning is different.

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And, you know, I was

just ready for a change.

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Also, once you pick something

like that, you hear it everywhere.

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We were watching a commercial

and it was on there.

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And my husband just looked at me and I'm.

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Just sitting here and I'm like, yeah.

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It's time.

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Today is a return to form for me

in interviewing other people about

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the messy middles of their lives.

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Today, you're going to

hear from Josie Dumont.

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I loved our conversation.

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It felt so good and Josi's just lovely.

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Her story is really fascinating and brave.

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And.

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Uh, I know you're going to love it.

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Let's jump right in.

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welcome Josi.

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I'm so excited to talk to you today.

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Josi: I'm so happy to be here, Lacey.

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Thank you for having me.

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Lacey: you and I connected via threads and

I am so excited to hear your messy middle.

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but first why don't you take a moment

and introduce yourself to our listeners

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Josi: Yes, happy to do so.

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This is always a question where

I'm like, okay, where to start?

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without the messy middle to not

give too much away, but hi everyone.

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I am Josi Dumont and I am now

a leadership and mindset coach.

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Have been doing that for almost three

years now, which is crazy to me.

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And I've been working with dozens of

women worldwide to really turn their self

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doubt into self trust to doing it their

way to build businesses, to find their

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dream careers, to find new partners.

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So I also wrote a book.

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So I'm also an author and also

a fellow podcast host, actually.

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That's a very short version.

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Lacey: and where are you in the world?

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Josi: So I'm based in London in the UK.

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It has been my home of

heart for six years now.

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originally I'm from Germany, but

that's like a chapter where I'm

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like, Nope, I will never go back.

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London is where, where, the vibes are.

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This is where I'm happy.

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Lacey: I saw somewhere that you're in

London and I'm like, but you're Your

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accent isn't quite what I would think

is British, so thank you for sharing.

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I'm actually going to Germany for the

first time in October, so I'm excited.

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Josi: Are you going to the Oktoberfest?

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Lacey: We're, so I have a chronic

illness and so like travel

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is hard for me in general.

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this is actually a trip that we

planned before I was chronically

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ill and then I got chronically

ill and then we had to cancel.

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to make our lives as easy as possible,

we're doing one of the like river

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cruises and just making life as easy.

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So we're going down the Rhine,

starting in Amsterdam, down the

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Rhine, to Basel, Switzerland.

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So we'll hit a couple

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Josi: No, that's literally where I'm

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from, like Basel, like that

area around Basel, Switzerland.

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Well, we're going to be there for a hot

second and take a train to Paris because

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I've always wanted to go to Paris.

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Josi: Oh,

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I'm so excited

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Lacey: Thanks.

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I cannot stress how, important

this trip is going to be for me.

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and just so many different ways,

like proving to myself that I can

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do it after a chronic illness.

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You seem to, get what I meant

by messy middle right away.

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So I'd love to hear that initial

thought of what that meant to you.

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Josi: Yeah, for me, messy middle,

I got immediately taken back to

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like that was my messy middle.

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And how I see it is before the

middle was like the up run to it.

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Like all the decisions I made, everything

that has happened before that contributed

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to me being in a place where I was like.

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What the fuck is this?

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how did I get here?

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And just to give a little bit of

story to what was before I was like

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having a steep finance career, I

was working in the corporate space.

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Everything was going well.

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I just moved to the UK with my back

then fiance and everything seemed

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like Ringo Rosie, like amazing.

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And then the middle happened and

the middle was first me burning out

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because I was leading a huge project

and it took everything out of me.

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It was obviously also during COVID.

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Shit was going down.

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Physically and mentally,

I was already exhausted.

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Like I was dead, And

that was the first part.

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And then also I started realizing that my

relationship back then wasn't actually.

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the greatest.

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It was very toxic and I kept on ignoring

all of the red flags for so long, but

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being in this very vulnerable space of

already being exhausted was just like a

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big curtain dropping and showing me all

the ugliness in this supposedly And I

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was just like, Whoa, things, things are

not going in the right direction here.

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This is very, very bad.

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The thing is, we still got married.

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We still got married.

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But then on the wedding day, it was

finally the day where I was like, Okay.

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No, no, this is not my man.

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I need to get out.

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And then afterwards we immediately

started the splitting up process and

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literally a couple months later, it was

all annulled as if it never happened.

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So I got out, but still at the point

in time was like, okay, I'm burnt out.

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I'm physically exhausted,

mentally exhausted.

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I have a toxic relationship to deal with.

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And then also at work.

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It wasn't just a burnout.

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It was also that we went

through another restructuring.

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And I think it was like the third one.

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And despite me being in the teams

who were designing the new space,

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designing the new department and being

in the sprint teams and being super

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involved, it was again redundancy.

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I was asked a question, like,

do you want to stay or leave?

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And I was like, do you know what?

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I want to leave.

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I I have no idea what I could

do, but I want to get out.

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so yeah, there were loads of crazy,

scary decisions I had to make

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in such a short amount of time.

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And that was my messy middle.

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I can't even describe, it was just chaos.

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It was emotional chaos and it was

draining, but at the same time, I know

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this messy middle was so needed for

me to come out so much stronger and

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really say, I got to choose myself here.

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I got to do what is right for me.

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Left corporate, left the toxic

relationship, built my own business.

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Here we are.

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Lacey: mean, that takes an

incredible amount of self trust.

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Like I just, to look around at

almost every single facet of your

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life and say, No, like I can't.

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So I very much relate to your story

of like things coming down at once

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and it forcing me to do something.

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But mine was a chronic illness

that I didn't have a choice in.

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So I applaud you and that

you made that choice.

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that's a big freaking deal that

you chose to make the choice.

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So kudos to you first off.

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The other thing I want

to say is I love that.

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you were in the messy middle,

but you could see the plot

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points of how you got there.

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Because I think a lot of times

we don't see those plot points

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until we get to a certain moment.

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It's like, oh, shit.

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That led to this.

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That led to, you know,

and that's very hard.

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I am curious though, you mentioned

like your wedding day and

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then you mentioned your, Like

redundancy and that kind of stuff.

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And I just want to say redundancy here.

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We're talking about like in

America, we would call it like

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layoffs and that kind of thing.

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Josi: Yeah.

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Lacey: I mean, let go that kind of thing.

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Is there like, when you think about it, is

there like a visceral moment that you're

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like, this was the moment that I felt it.

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So like for me, for example,

it was a Halloween night.

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my parents were taking my kids

trick or treating and it was

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like this moment of my world.

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It's different.

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My world will be different.

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I have realized this is it.

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So I'm just curious, did you

have a visceral moment like that?

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Josi: Yes.

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As you were talking, the moment that

came up for me was I had a meeting

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scheduled with one of my managers and

HR about the layoff, about what's next?

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they were asking me,

Josi, do you want to stay?

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Do you want to take this

role or do you want to leave?

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And I remember coming into the call

camera off and I was very quiet and

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was just answering the questions.

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at the same day, short before

the call, I had a massive fight

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with my, obviously now ex.

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And.

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Then at some point they just

asked me, so what is next week?

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Like, what would make you happy?

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And I was just like, I don't know.

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I was, I was crying my eyes

out in that interview, and I

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They were just like, it's okay.

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Like they didn't know what to do.

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I could see their faces, you

know, but they couldn't see me.

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And I was just like, this is so horrible.

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they didn't know what everything,

like all the other stuff that was

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going on, because I didn't share

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like the wedding, the

divorce and everything.

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Then afterwards, When I locked

off the core, I was like, things

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need to change like quickly.

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Lacey: Mm hmm.

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Josi: This, this cannot go on.

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And at that time in space.

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I I think I consider myself kind

of lucky because I got into a

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training and they offered two

complimentary coaching sessions.

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And up to that point, I've

never been coached before.

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Only I had, a mentor myself.

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And so I talked to my coach and I

was like, What are we going to do?

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And she then really helped me to just

literally do like a pro and contra list.

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just helped me to realize,

okay, this is shit.

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And this is what I want.

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there's not much on the pro

list, but this is what I want.

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there are some bits that I want to change.

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And that just gave me the clarity

of, okay, we need to get into action.

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We need to get into gears.

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And throughout my whole life in

general, I always had to pick

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myself out of shitty situations.

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So I knew, okay, here we go again.

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it's another ride on the rollercoaster.

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We at the bottom right now.

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So let's go back up.

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It's okay.

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You can do this.

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And one thing I was like always

telling myself, you can see it in the

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background is I am, I can, I will.

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So I will.

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And that , Got me through.

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And I was just always

reminding myself of that.

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so this meeting was

definitely the kickoff to.

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Me starting to change things to realizing

I need to do something right now.

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Lacey: Yeah.

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I also can just put myself in your shoes

in that moment of being in a Zoom call.

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Okay.

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Josi: no.

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Lacey: am also curious, too, you

mentioned in the beginning, and from

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what I've read, that you very much

approach about doing things your way, so

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not the way that you should do things,

and this is also something that didn't

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know that I would, I call it shoulding.

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I was shoulding all over myself.

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I didn't know that I was doing it.

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And then once I started to

see it, I couldn't ignore it.

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It was so insidious and so

Marth's so many parts of my life.

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So I'm curious, what were your shoulds

that you were really holding on to?

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Josi: so many, I guess the biggest

ones were, Oh, you should stay in the

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corporate space because it's safe.

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You have a stable kind of income at the

same time, because obviously going through

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layoffs, , this is not safe at all.

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I can be made redundant.

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Tomorrow and I am so,

but that was a big shoot.

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And also like everybody in the family was

like, so what are you going to do now?

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You will take the job, right?

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You will stay that's

the reasonable decision.

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That's what you should do.

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people were thinking like,

well, you got married.

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That's for life.

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So you should stay with that person.

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Right.

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And it was quite funny when I

told some of my family members

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and friends about the divorce.

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They were like, You sure you don't

want to talk about it with him?

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And I was like, I'm, I'm not

taking this decision lightly.

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You know, it's not like I

just came up with this idea.

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I was like, cool, let's fly with it.

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no, this is, this is important.

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this is it, this is final.

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But they were still like,

Oh, but you should try this.

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You should try to make to find

peace or, or to, you should

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try to make it work again.

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But I was like, no, I really don't

want to, I know it deep inside of me.

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This is not right.

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Like something needs to change.

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Then also with, with burnout, the should

was, oh, but you still need to work.

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You should still work or you

should just take some time off

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and you will be fine again.

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Like just do a little bit more of like

meditations, have a little bit more

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free time and you will be fine again.

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Maybe you should take a sabbatical.

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That's not going to help me, it's

actually not going to help me.

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So those were all of those shoulds and

to some degree, they made it really

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hard for me to take the decisions

that I took because it was just like,

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well, should I actually do that?

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would it actually be the

right decision for me to take?

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But every time I like, so how I call

my intuition, it's like a forward

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pull or it's like a backward push.

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So every time I try to tune into

corporate, into the past relationship,

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into everything else that happened,

I was like, it gave me the ick.

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It literally gave me the, I was

like, nah, nah, I can't do that.

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And every time I was thinking about.

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Becoming a coach, entrepreneurship, really

helping people doing things my way that

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feels right to me, according to my values.

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I wanted to have impact.

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I wanted to be authentic.

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I wanted to have freedom

to do my own thing.

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There was such a forward pull.

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It was, it felt so expansive.

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So I just knew, okay, follow this,

follow your way, follow what you

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want to do and just go for it.

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You will figure it out.

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You always do.

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That's what I did.

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Lacey: I love the visual

of a push and a pull.

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one of the ways that I've been managing my

energy is, am I pushing myself to do this?

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Am I pushing through?

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Am I pushing?

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And so to think of the opposite of

like, well, is this pulling me towards

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I find for me, the looking at things,

and the more positive, not necessarily

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like toxic positivity or that kind of

stuff, but like the thing that's that

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are like showing what I am doing, not

what I'm not doing has that mentality has

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really changed a lot of my, my mindset.

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So I like the idea of even just

reframing too, for me, I'm not pushing.

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To do these things.

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I'm being pulled to do these other things.

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Josi: Yes.

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Lacey: powerful.

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really powerful.

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How did you communicate that to those

people who were saying, well, no, you

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should, because I think that's a real,

especially as women, we are so trained

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to not, not push back when someone says

that we should be doing something or

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authority And so I'm just curious, like,

how did you manage that almost fallout

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afterwards of like, no, you're wrong.

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Yeah.

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I'm not gonna follow here.

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Cause I think that fear is what

stops people a lot of times.

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Josi: Yeah.

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I think what helped me was

communicating my final decision.

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Like I already knew this is going

to happen no matter what you say.

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This is already done.

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For me, this is already like

black and on white paper.

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So even though they were

like, oh, but you should try.

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I was like, no, it's already decided.

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Like for me, this was

like such a certainty.

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And that really helped because I just.

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I, whatever you say, if you give me a

million dollars, I still wouldn't do it.

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If you give me 2, 000, 000,

I still wouldn't do it.

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I wouldn't go back.

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Like this is final.

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So going at it and communicating

literally the final decision without

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having any wiggle room for people

to influence you with their external

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opinions that have nothing to do with

your life, I feel really, really helps

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because that's also what you're doing.

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What then creates even more self trust

in yourself, because, you know, for

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yourself, this is the right decision,

no matter what anyone else says.

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They will judge you anyway.

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They will judge you whether you do

it or whether you don't do it because

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they might say, Oh, see now she stayed

because she felt too scared to go into

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entrepreneurship, or they could say,

Oh, now she left her secure corporate

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job just to be an entrepreneur.

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Like they will always say something.

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So just give them permission to say

whatever they want and follow your own

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lead and really remind yourself of,

for me, this is the right decision.

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And I communicated that whether you

accept it or not, you can say about what

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you want, but this is my new reality.

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Lacey: So So we kind of had our

middle, and I asked you about before

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the middle, and now I want to think

about what happened afterwards.

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Did you have signposts that

you were doing things right?

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Did you have struggles that you're

really questioning yourself?

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What did that look like?

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Josi: I did have signposts because as I

mentioned, I got into coaching and I then

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the, it was kind of like a last hurrah

from my company and the last hurrah.

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And thank you from my, one of my

managers who signed me off to do the

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foundational kind of training as a coach.

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On company's expenses, which I was, and

I still am so grateful for it because he

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was just like, because he was leaving too.

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So he was like, yeah,

I signed that for you.

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That's, that's okay.

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And I was like, nice.

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Thanks.

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So that was one of my kind of

like milestones, literally

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like a lighthouse, you

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know, in the distance

that was guiding my path.

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So I was like, okay,

this is the next step.

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I finished this training and

I finished that training.

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And then I knew, okay, I

want to do certification.

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I want to be like a proper ICF

accredited and certified coach.

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I want to do this full on and go

like literally all in because I

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absolutely loved the impact coaching

had not only because I saw it on

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myself, but as I started coaching

clients, I was just like, Holy shit,

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this is life changing All of us.

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I need to do this.

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I need to do more of it because

it's a life with my values.

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So finishing the training, then

finishing the certification,

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that was another like light post.

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And then obviously just

diving into entrepreneurship.

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I was like, cool.

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I want to have that many clients, but I

also want to have this and this and this.

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And with some of those things

they turned out as Okay.

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That's trickier than expected.

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For example, with like a podcast

for two years, I was so convinced

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I need to do it with someone else.

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And I was waiting for someone

else asking other people, Hey,

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do you want to do it together?

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And everybody was at first yes,

let's do a podcast together.

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And then it just fizzled out and

died and we never did anything.

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So some of these were really

frustrating and it was just like.

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What am I doing?

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Will I ever have a podcast?

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Then the same thing with a book.

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I did three years ago,

the idea came back up.

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It was like a childhood dream.

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I wanted to write a book, but for

two more years, it didn't start.

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I was just like, am I really the

right person to write a book?

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Do I have enough to say?

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What do I want to write about?

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Would people read it?

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So I was going through all of those

kind of like doubting questions, but

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because I had the tools myself now as a

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coach as well, I was just like,

okay, let's go through this.

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Let's coach myself through this.

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And then.

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I did it.

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I did my podcast alone.

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I wrote my book.

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It's all out now.

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So it's, it's, yeah, it's fascinating

how, so these were obviously like

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lighthouses as well, the podcast, the

book, like these are all milestones.

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And I love how I'm reflecting right now.

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It's just So nice as you

said it yourself, right?

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You see those points that

led you to the messy middle.

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And now then I saw the point

that kind of got me out.

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And now again, like at this point,

I see the points that I actually

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did take basically that got me

to where I am now and to where I

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will be going in future as well.

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love that

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Lacey: I used to advise students one

of the things that I always said is you

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don't need to have a destination in mind.

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You just need to be working down

a path that path may change.

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It may go.

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So I like your lighthouse.

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analogy of okay, I have my

path to this lighthouse.

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I get to the lighthouse.

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what light do I see next?

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I, but I also just love listening

to your story because I see so

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much of my own in the same thing.

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which is one of the reasons why I do

this podcast is because the more that

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I learn about other people's stories,

the more that I learned that, It's so

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easy to see yourself in other people's

stories and that we're not alone

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and that we all have these struggles

and whatnot., I do want to ask.

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too, about your love life, because

that's a big kind of part of it.

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It's really nice that you were able

to do an annulment and Be like,

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it's almost like it never happened.

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what did the rest of

that look like for you?

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Josi: that is one of my most

favorite parts, actually.

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it was again, kind of

like an intuition burst.

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I have up to that point when

that happened, I have never

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been in my whole life on Tinder.

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Lacey: Mm

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Josi: I have never been my whole

life on any dating websites or apps.

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I had no clue how they work

from like a 31 year old woman.

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So I was just like downloading Tinder.

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I had the urge suddenly I was like,

I need to download Tinder today.

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So I downloaded Tinder and it

was like, how does this work?

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What do I do?

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And I was swiping and swiping

and I was swiping like.

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Left so often that at some point Tinder

was like, okay, we run out of men.

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We need to increase like the range.

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Lacey: It's good to know

what you don't want.

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I mean,

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Josi: exactly.

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I was like, there's

nothing wrong with being

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picky.

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And I think out of five people I

swiped to the right side, there was

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one guy who just ticked all the boxes.

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And I had loads of boxes after

obviously the failed relationship.

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And I was like, he, he really,

he really seems very, very nice.

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And it was funny because for him, he

said he only just redownloaded Tinder.

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And I was one of the first

matches for him as well.

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So I was just like.

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Okay, that's special and then we went

on our first date and I think we spent

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like six hours in a Japanese kind of

like sake bar talking all night and

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it was so nice and yeah, literally

like the whole love story unfolded

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from there, like, We live together.

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We've been together for

two and a half years now.

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And it's literally been the best

relationship I could ever ask for.

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Like sometimes, actually I had a moment

today because he was reading my book.

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So every morning nine to nine 30,

he takes time to read my book.

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And I was just looking at him taking

a picture and was like, how did I

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get so lucky to have someone who.

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Supports me in everything I do,

accepts me truly for who I am.

465

I can just be my quirky ass

self and I'm still loved.

466

And he also like supports

me and he reads my book.

467

He makes time to read my book, right?

468

He edits

469

Lacey: exploding right now.

470

Josi: Yeah, mine is too.

471

I'm just like, Oh, I love you, Debbie.

472

So Yeah.

473

it was

474

just

475

Lacey: Podcast, that's another

huge love thing right there.

476

That can be a slog, so.

477

Josi: So yeah, it was, it's just like,

wow, I literally found the love of my

478

life on Tinder.

479

And the funniest thing is I have

to add that into is, so with my ex,

480

I could never see having children.

481

I was really strict.

482

I was like, I do not want children.

483

But now with my man now

sitting in the living room.

484

My ovaries are singing and I'm

like, I finally can see it.

485

I can see myself being a mom,

but also because I have the

486

right guy who can be a father.

487

So to me personally, that has been

such a huge shift because I was

488

always like, no, I don't want kids.

489

I don't want kids.

490

So people who are listening to

this, who were always like, oh

491

yeah, you just wait, you just wait.

492

I'm like, yeah, you're right.

493

I have to, it changed.

494

Lacey: It's really funny, The episode

that's going to come out for the,

495

before this is I talk with nieces.

496

We talk about what it's like to, that I'm

their aunt and just that kind of stuff.

497

And one of them is very staunch,

like she will not have kids.

498

And I told her, I'm like.

499

You do you, first of

all, have two children.

500

And if there's anything that I

know is that if you choose to not

501

have kids, I 100 percent get it.

502

Like it's so much work.

503

It's

504

so hard, but I think the beauty of it is,

is that you can always change your mind.

505

You don't have to have an

answer for that right now.

506

you that having the right partner Makes

507

the world of difference in, in that.

508

Absolutely.

509

So just, I still can't get over that.

510

He reads your book every

morning for 30 minutes.

511

I just, I don't know.

512

It's just so it's so sweet.

513

I'm thinking about if my, my husband.

514

It's very lovely, but we've

also been together for 14 years.

515

He's like, I know what's going on.

516

I don't need to learn more right now.

517

Josi: to read the book.

518

Lacey: Well, I do like to bookend

things and wrap the episode up

519

with a piece of advice from you,

whether that's, something that you.

520

Used or needed in the middle, maybe

something that you've lived by.

521

what piece of advice would you give?

522

Josi: I definitely mentioned it before,

like just the saying I am, I can, I

523

will, because it always reminded me

of, I have everything that I need right

524

now to get me out of the shithole or

out of any messy middle I might be in.

525

I got myself in there.

526

I got to take ownership.

527

I got to take leadership to

get myself out there again.

528

And this is, Really, really powerful in

knowing that you can do it and really

529

building this kind of self trust to

also keep on going your own way, like

530

really honing in on your strengths,

maybe working on your weaknesses,

531

but also it's fine to be imperfect.

532

There is no perfect human

being on this planet.

533

So do your own thing

and that's your path to.

534

The most fulfilled life that you can have.

535

Lacey: Never knew how much I didn't

trust myself until I started to see that.

536

I was like, Oh, that's why

that's not working is because

537

I've never trusted myself.

538

How do I trust myself?

539

And it's, it's like any relationship.

540

It takes time and effort.

541

And to be reminded that

I am, I can, and I will.

542

Where can people find you, find

your book, all that good stuff?

543

Josi: So you can find me literally

anywhere and everywhere with

544

just my name, Josi Dumont.

545

So it's J O S I D U M O N T.

546

So you can find me on Instagram,

my website, LinkedIn, YouTube.

547

My podcast is very uncreative in the name.

548

It's just the Josi Dumont podcast.

549

There you go.

550

And obviously my book is

also linked everywhere.

551

It's, and there she goes her

way, literally talking about

552

whatever I just talked about.

553

In this episode as well.

554

Please do reach out if you want

to get in touch, if experienced

555

the same, if you have questions,

I'm literally an open book and I'm

556

always happy to connect with people.

557

Lacey: Can people, are you still coaching?

558

Could people potentially work with you if

that's something they're interested in?

559

Josi: Yes, absolutely.

560

I do offer one on one coaching services.

561

, you can either try it first with a month.

562

That's the coaching booster, or you

dive straight in and be like, not Josi.

563

I want to have three, six, 12

or whatever, how many months

564

of, of a coaching package.

565

And I'm also in August

launching my membership.

566

So that's more a group

kind of like program.

567

It's a community with like minded women

where you can come together and support

568

another to all really authentically.

569

Go our own ways, but we have

that support in our side pocket.

570

Lacey: Wonderful, thank you so much

for sharing the middle with me today.

571

I really appreciate it.

572

Josi: Thank you much for having me, Lacey.

573

This was fun.