welcome to sharing the middle ware that we share the messy metals of life.

2

I'm Lacey, your friend

in the middle in guide.

3

My claim to fame.

4

This week is making it to the

second trimester of my pregnancy.

5

It's a lot, but we're making it.

6

In today's episode, I'm

chatting with Shannon Klein.

7

And we get deep into health,

chronic illness, motherhood, and.

8

Ah, I love it.

9

You know, I love talking to

someone else with chronic illness.

10

I really think that you'll enjoy this

talk between me and Shannon and I am

11

going to continue to do my best to get.

12

Episodes out.

13

I've got some really awesome interviews.

14

hope to talk to us.

15

Um, other folks in my world too, but.

16

Pregnant.

17

Tired.

18

Lacey's just doing her best.

19

With that, let's jump

into my chat with Shannon.

20

Lacey (2): welcome to

Sharing the Middle, Shannon.

21

Thank you so much for being here.

22

Shannon: Thank you for having me.

23

Lacey: Of course.

24

So I usually like to start for

people to actually introduce

25

themselves because it's a lot better

than me reading off of a script.

26

Shannon: I am a lover of life.

27

My name is Shannon Klein, but

most people call me Shannon K.

28

I'm a coach, so I help coach women

and that's what they call me.

29

They're like, Hey, Shannon K.

30

So that's what I go by.

31

Nobody ever says my actual last name.

32

I really focus on podcasting and

just encouraging, inspiring women.

33

So that's like my day to day work, right?

34

We're defined by roles in our

society when we tell about ourselves.

35

that's like my first passion.

36

I have Children.

37

So I'm a wife, mom, lots of kids.

38

I have grandkids.

39

I work with education, adult

education with a nonprofit.

40

So just really living my dream life.

41

And I know it sounds like I do

a lot, but I do very little.

42

And that's by design.

43

through my messy middle, I

designed my life to do little

44

so that I can enjoy life.

45

So when people say, who are you?

46

I'm a person that just enjoys life.

47

That's who I am.

48

That's my whole goal focus of who I am.

49

Lacey: I think that is awesome.

50

And I also appreciate that you started

off I'm going to do the typical

51

introduction, but then get into

this is what's actually important.

52

to me because I agree.

53

Like when somebody asks

me, tell me about you.

54

I'm like, what?

55

I don't, I don't know what to start with.

56

For so long it was like, well, this

is my job and that kind of stuff.

57

And now my job is so many different

things and all that stuff.

58

So I understand.

59

So when you first thought the messy middle

or that kind of thing, I find people tend

60

to have a really visceral reaction to it.

61

So what was your initial reaction?

62

Shannon: I thought it was very like the

messy middle to me is a beautiful thing.

63

Cause my messy middle was a very

traumatic, but It was also the best

64

thing that ever happened to me.

65

So I feel like it's this paradox place

where we can end up, that takes us until,

66

just different things in life, right?

67

When I heard that, it's a

beautiful thing to explore.

68

I think these days and age, we don't

want to explore the messy middle, right?

69

We want to do the highlight reels,

but life is not all highlight reels.

70

Life is truly life.

71

My messy middle to me was the best

thing that ever happened to me.

72

It was messy and it was a middle,

73

but then I came out the other side.

74

Lacey: tell us about it.

75

I am so excited.

76

This sounds so much like me.

77

I can't wait to hear the intricacies

of it and that kind of stuff.

78

So tell us about your messy middle.

79

Shannon: I was that person

like talking about society and

80

even how we introduce ourself.

81

I was that person who I had the great job.

82

I'm moving up.

83

I'm all the things that society says

you're supposed to be for a successful,

84

that person that just works all

the time and always looks the best.

85

busy and that's what it is.

86

And doing all the things for my

kids and the birthday parties and

87

the events and the Pinterest worthy

life house is always looking great.

88

Like that person that's constantly go.

89

And I've truly identified

with that person.

90

that became my identity just

through those habits in my life.

91

And then I'll never forget it.

92

93

And it was a rainy night.

94

I live in Texas and it was very

rare to have rain in June and it

95

was cool and rainy and stormy.

96

And it was just coming down.

97

And I had my first episode of what

I would later learn are many other

98

episodes, just a sudden onset

of what was a chronic illness.

99

And I couldn't breathe.

100

I kept telling my

husband, I can't breathe.

101

I can't breathe.

102

And I thought I was

having an anxiety attack.

103

And so he took me and he threw the garage

door open and he let the rain fall on

104

my face, just trying to calm me down.

105

And so nothing's working.

106

I can't figure out what's going on.

107

I'm just like, just something's

wrong with my throat.

108

Something's wrong with my throat.

109

I don't know what this is.

110

And he takes me to the ER.

111

Of course, it's like COVID time.

112

Like COVID was very new at this time.

113

They aren't trying to look in my throat

from Across the room in the doc, like

114

in the ER, he says, say, ah, like he,

the doctor wasn't even close to me.

115

And he's I don't really see anything.

116

Maybe you're having an allergic

reaction, all this stuff.

117

So my life just changed

forever in that moment.

118

Like it would never have been the same.

119

It never was the same from that moment.

120

And I went to many doctors and

they told me that I was crazy.

121

They told me.

122

you're nuts.

123

Like you just have anxiety.

124

You haven't depression.

125

Everybody's suffering

with that stuff right now.

126

Let's get you on some

depression medication.

127

And I was really being gas lit.

128

And what really happened was I was

feeling like I was choking all the time.

129

So I wouldn't eat.

130

I was, it felt like somebody was

just squeezing my throat closed.

131

So I wouldn't eat then I just had this

fear of eating and then I thought I was

132

crazy, but I was just too scared to eat.

133

So finally, cause my regular doctor.

134

Was like booked up

135

and I finally got in to see her

in August, like the end of August,

136

137

And I'm like, all these telehealth

doctors, ER doctors, I had been

138

to the ER a few times since then.

139

they're telling me, I'm crazy.

140

So I just need help because

I'm also taking, trying to take

141

these depression medications.

142

But I just, this, nothing's working.

143

I can't get off my couch.

144

And I was just paralyzed in fear.

145

fear.

146

It's so hard to describe the

feeling of what it's like.

147

But I try and tell people it's like

somebody has their hands wrapped

148

around your throat all the time.

149

And sometimes it's worse

and sometimes it's better.

150

And I just, I have no idea

what's happening to me.

151

And she said, maybe something

really is going on with you.

152

Let's just send you to a

specialist just in case before

153

we say, it's just in your head.

154

So I go to an ENT and he's wow,

you have all this scar tissue in

155

your throat and all this stuff,

and I see stuff's coming up.

156

Let's get you on some antacid.

157

Maybe you have a reflux.

158

And I came home that day and I told

my husband, Oh my God, I have reflux.

159

I was so happy.

160

I was like, I'm not in my head.

161

wrong with me.

162

And he's you're so happy you have reflux.

163

I'm like, Yeah.

164

And he says, let's send you

off to the next specialist.

165

And so I go through all these tests,

all these procedures, and it comes

166

to find out my esophagus muscles

have just suddenly stopped working.

167

They collapse on each other, which

is this choking feeling I'm feeling.

168

The bottom muscles push up,

the top muscles push down.

169

Everything's getting stuck in my middle.

170

They're getting stuck in my middle.

171

and then the muscles at the bottom

aren't holding anything in the stomach.

172

So stuff's coming up.

173

I'm regurgitating, stomach

acids coming up all the time.

174

Like all this stuff's happening

and I'm still not eating.

175

And I still can't eat food and I

have all this trauma around trying to

176

swallow stuff because I wasn't nuts.

177

something was in my throat.

178

It was there.

179

It was stuck

180

all this time.

181

It was like I was choking without the

gasping choking thing, but I was choking.

182

So I was like, now what?

183

And I get different medications.

184

I have different procedures done

on my neck and I keep losing

185

weight during all this time.

186

So before this, I was slightly

overweight, like for my size.

187

I'm a small person.

188

So overweight for me for most

people is normal because I'm short.

189

So I'm about 140 pounds

and I keep losing weight.

190

I can't eat.

191

I fall into malnutrition.

192

So now I'm at a stage where they're trying

to fix it where I can get nutrients.

193

But now I have malnutrition.

194

I have no energy.

195

I'm a hundred and one pounds

and I have about maybe six,

196

six hours of energy a day.

197

Can't get out of bed.

198

I've just exhausted that busy

person that I was no longer exist.

199

I'm having this existential crisis as

if I don't matter in this world anymore.

200

I'm useless.

201

What can I do?

202

And it got to a point where.

203

I just had to sit with myself

and there's so many things that

204

go on with, I think, illness.

205

we talked about the illness part of it,

the medical part, but for me, a big part

206

of it was I had to finally stop and sit

with myself in life and be in my own head.

207

And it was quiet and I

could no longer ignore.

208

And I had to heal

209

my inner self.

210

And to me, when you say like the

messy middle, there was all this

211

physical stuff going on and that

stuff was the bad stuff, right?

212

The thing that made it hard every day.

213

But then there was this other part

that was becoming very beautiful.

214

For the first time in my life,

I learned to love myself just

215

for authentically who I am.

216

Like I didn't have to be anything.

217

I didn't have to fill a role.

218

I didn't have to conform to anything

because all I could do was go to

219

work and come home and get in my bed.

220

That's all I could do and just be there.

221

And so it was transformative.

222

It was like, the messy part is

that it's, a lot of faith and

223

it's a lot of self discovery and

it's a lot of an inner journey.

224

And even though I had my family around

me, so supportive, like my kids,

225

they just blow my mind all the time.

226

They're all older, except one, like I'm

going to be an empty nester next year.

227

I just have the baby at home,

during that, like they were just

228

how they really just pulls for me.

229

So I had that support.

230

And even when you have support though, On

the inside, it still can feel very lonely.

231

Lacey: Absolutely.

232

Shannon: so I was in this lonely place

and I thought, gosh, this feels so lonely.

233

And that's really, I learned to love me

234

and really find who I

am and find what I want.

235

But also in all this, the beautiful thing

was I just had to stop the world changed.

236

Because I noticed all the really cool

conversations I was missing with my

237

kids because I was too busy being busy

238

and I realized the sunsets I didn't

see and just relaxing on the porch,

239

all these parts of life that we

just zoom by because we're busy and

240

I'm like, why is this happening?

241

This is life.

242

This is life all around me.

243

And I realized the biggest change

for me was I don't want to go back.

244

I don't want to go back to that person.

245

I can't go back to that

person who's always going.

246

which was hard for me because

the hustle culture, right?

247

Like you have to

248

work more to make more

to have this good life.

249

And so through my journey, you.

250

And I know everybody's journey is

different and people find solace when

251

you're going through medical stuff, you

find solace somewhere in something and

252

my solace was finding manifestation.

253

I found manifestation and just

how can I work on my thoughts?

254

How can I work on my self worth?

255

How can I work on?

256

My inner world and let that be

reflected in my outer world because

257

I know what I want to feel like.

258

Now I just need that to

happen outside of me.

259

And so I really tapped into

that and I decided, I don't have

260

to, I don't have to work more.

261

I'm gonna work less than

I'm gonna make more.

262

Like I just made this decision.

263

it took a long time.

264

I think a lot of people think,

you just wishfully think

265

stuff and it makes it happen.

266

Doesn't all of this was a

road, but it was a decision.

267

It's making this decision and

sticking with it and believing in it.

268

And I believe what you believe.

269

You know what you believe you can have.

270

so I said, how can this happen?

271

I don't know how this can happen.

272

I just opened myself up to these new

opportunities, It was really about opening

273

myself up to a different world, a world

where people actually do just chill and

274

they work some and they do what they like.

275

But then they just do

all this other stuff.

276

And I was like, I want to tap into that.

277

And so that's it was like this

whole transformation of myself.

278

So as time goes on, I'm 101 pounds.

279

Now I'm malnutrition.

280

I have malnutrition and, I'm just weak.

281

And my doctor finally said,

nothing we're doing is working.

282

We're going to have to put you on a

feeding tube for the rest of your life.

283

You need a feeding tube.

284

Because if not, you're

just going to wither away.

285

You're not going to be here

and I'm a very stubborn person.

286

Just, I am.

287

I'm stubborn.

288

I think stubbornness gets a

bad rap, but stubbornness can

289

really take you a long way.

290

I don't accept that.

291

I don't want that.

292

I don't want it.

293

I was like, no, I'm not doing it.

294

And he was like, we're going to

have to, I said, give me one month,

295

give me one month to gain a little

bit of weight, just one month.

296

And so I started working on

doing different things with my

297

puree foods and things like that.

298

Cause by that time, I had enough

procedures that I could have puree food.

299

So I was basically eating baby food.

300

woohoo, fun.

301

I'm sitting here, baked beans, anybody?

302

Yeah.

303

As long as you're like

completely liquefied.

304

so I said, just give me a month.

305

And I worked so hard.

306

Like I put all of my efforts

into I'm going to gain weight.

307

So then I go back, I'm 102 pounds.

308

He goes, okay, you're 102.

309

He said, if you ever drop below a hundred,

we're not having this conversation

310

anymore, which now that I think back

to it, it's I always had a choice, but

311

I see where, it's but, he's we're not

going to have it under a hundred pounds.

312

And so I said, I want to eat again.

313

I don't want to live my life not eating.

314

Cause another thing I realized

is food is very important.

315

Like for social time and family time,

like we do a lot of stuff with food

316

and then when you can't do anything

with food, you feel very left out.

317

If I'm going to put food in my body,

what's the best way to do this?

318

And he says, okay, you're going

to eat mashed potatoes, then

319

maybe some chunky mashed potatoes.

320

this whole, if you want

to try it, we can do this.

321

But if this happens, you

need to stop immediately.

322

And you can't have, I love

salad and things like that.

323

And he's you can't have vegetables

because they have this, waxy skin on them.

324

that could be very bad for you.

325

So I started, and then I

did like soft, solid food.

326

And I just started working my way up

and I'm still on all these medications.

327

but finally the end of my story,

this is a long, like three year

328

story, but at the end I can eat now.

329

They told me I would never eat again.

330

And now I eat solid food.

331

I enjoy it.

332

I'm off all of my medications.

333

I slowly had them weaning me.

334

Yeah.

335

I slowly told him, take me

off of all of my medications.

336

Cause I don't want to live like this.

337

They made me tired.

338

They mess with other functions in my body.

339

and I said, I want to be medication free.

340

I want to eat.

341

I got up to 125 pounds and I'm eating now.

342

I still stay away from the spicy stuff,

even though I like it just cause little

343

bits every now and then, but not a lot.

344

Cause I'm like, I love it.

345

I gotta have a little bit.

346

Lacey: especially in Texas, you guys

have a lot of good, spicy stuff.

347

Shannon: We really do and I moved to Texas

and I was like, this is good I want more

348

and oh, yeah So I'm like I don't want

to give that up and for probably like I

349

went on a bender like once I finally knew

I could eat and because With anything,

350

like your stomach's gonna shrink, right?

351

So I

352

hadn't eaten for so long,

my stomach was small.

353

So if you got me a combo from Sonic,

I could only eat probably like a

354

fourth to a half of the burger.

355

And I just, I was too full.

356

Whatever, I stretched my stomach back out.

357

And I was like, I finished

a whole Sonic meal.

358

I was so proud of myself.

359

And then I was like,

I'm eating everything.

360

I'm buying Cheesecake Factory

every night for dessert.

361

And I just went on this bender and

I ate all the food in the world.

362

Like now, of course, I'm trying

to like, get back in balance.

363

It'd be like, girl, put

good things in your body.

364

But I was like, I'm tasting everything.

365

It's almost like a kid, like

for the very first time I'm

366

experiencing this, cause I forgot it.

367

it was almost, like getting high.

368

Like when

369

people say they love food

or they're addicted to food.

370

I really feel like that can be true.

371

now it was like, when I would eat things.

372

It gave me this euphoric feeling.

373

This food in my body was very euphoric.

374

And I was like, wow, but going through

all this, it just taught me so much,

375

like it taught me that I'm going to be

me and I'm going to not be these other

376

people that everybody wants me to be.

377

And I'm literally going to enjoy.

378

Life and people who knew me

before and now they're like,

379

You're so different.

380

But I think when you go through something

like that, and I came out on the other

381

side and I'm so grateful for that.

382

cause I wasn't ready to be somebody.

383

I didn't want that to

be the rest of my life.

384

I have a whole lot more life to live.

385

Learning to love myself so fiercely.

386

And I think it's something that

we're not taught, like what I

387

realized, like laying in my bed, I

388

realized, we'll just tell you all

the things you need to improve

389

about yourself or what you could

do better or what you're missing.

390

And I just.

391

It was this beautiful.

392

So it is messy.

393

It was so messy because it was very

depressing and I had depression.

394

I had those things going on.

395

I did.

396

Lacey: you did.

397

Shannon: right?

398

it's so messy.

399

And I think it's messy because it's good

and bad and up and down and all around.

400

And it's a whirlwind.

401

But I really feel like.

402

Once I embraced it, once I

said, okay, this is where I am.

403

This is what's going on.

404

I'm going to love myself through this.

405

there was a time, a good friend

of mine, all my clothes, none

406

of my clothes were fitting me.

407

And I was like, none of my clothes

fit, but I don't want to go shopping

408

because the thought of buying smaller

clothes just reminded me of my sickness.

409

And she said, you have to just

love your body wherever it is.

410

in whatever stage that's in and just

go love your body and it'll be okay.

411

And so once I started buying clothes to

dress my body and started to embrace,

412

okay, I'm changing, but I'm just going

to embrace the change for whatever it is.

413

That really just set off something

in me that says, okay, we can

414

love ourselves in the good.

415

We can love ourselves in the hard.

416

We can love ourselves when

we don't know what to do.

417

And when we do know what to do, We

can just love ourself wherever we are.

418

And I think that's what you

learn in the middle, it's coming

419

from one place and you're not

quite at a place you want to be.

420

That's for darn sure.

421

You're

422

not at that end point, right?

423

It's this in between space of

just being and picking all those

424

parts of where you're being.

425

So it just taught me so.

426

much about me.

427

And I think sometimes we hyper focus

so much on what's going wrong, that

428

it's hard for us to think what is going

right, or what can I get out of this?

429

And I've always been like,

the cup is over flowing.

430

Like it's not even half full.

431

It's overflowing.

432

There's nothing in the cup.

433

It's overflowing.

434

that's always been my thing, but

I'm like, what can I get from this?

435

Lacey: I

436

Shannon: I think I also learned that,

sometimes in life, maybe it's good

437

if people just stop and sit with

themselves and be with yourself.

438

Lacey: you're like two years

ahead of me and your journey.

439

So I'm like, Oh my

gosh, this is my future.

440

I'm so excited.

441

but just a few months ago, I had this

moment of, Oh, I don't wish to be the

442

girl I was before I got chronically ill.

443

Like I look at her like

she's like my little sister.

444

She's cute.

445

I appreciate her for what she

was, but I don't want to be her.

446

Which was one of the most liberating

things that I had ever like

447

consciously thought of because

for so long I was fighting myself

448

and thinking I wasn't, like all of

these things were wrong with me.

449

I'm good right here.

450

It doesn't mean I like it a hundred

percent, I don't want to go back.

451

And I think it's so profound

what you said, we are never

452

taught to like ourselves.

453

We are always taught to,

how can we be better?

454

what does this other person have

that we don't or that kind of thing?

455

It can be such a hamster wheel that

having a moment like that makes

456

you stop can feel like a gift.

457

Shannon: it really is.

458

And when you talk about just like

the freedom and what you realize

459

when you're chronically ill,

you just don't have the energy.

460

I don't have the energy

to fake it anymore.

461

I don't have the energy

to hold up pretense,

462

When you're trying to like move

through the world and, Be what

463

other people want you to be.

464

That takes a lot of energy.

465

And then when you just don't

have the energy for it, you're

466

like, Oh my gosh, what a relief.

467

Like you don't realize.

468

How much you've been expending and

then you have this thing where it's

469

I don't have the energy for that.

470

And even when I don't want to

give it away that way anymore.

471

I want my energy to be just like, it's so

much easier to just be you in this world.

472

You don't have to second guess yourself.

473

And I think.

474

That's a blessing of chronic illness

because you don't have that energy

475

and it's okay to let that person go.

476

You appreciate her, , she served

me well through many other trials

477

and tribulations in my life.

478

She served me well and

I love her for that.

479

But I noticed also that she did a

lot of that because of other traumas

480

and things she needed to heal from.

481

And once I was able to heal,

then I didn't have to, most of

482

us function in trauma responses

through life, I think is what we do.

483

But once I was able to just stop

and heal her, like you said,

484

stopping that hamster wheel.

485

And it's just, you don't have a choice.

486

It's beautiful.

487

But what I try to teach people

now is don't wait until you

488

don't have the choice, right?

489

Because then you're going to

490

be dealing with all this other stuff too.

491

So that's what I really try and encourage

the people that I work with to do, do it.

492

Now, like the time is now,

don't wait until your world come

493

crashing down on you because mine

just, it changed in an instant.

494

I could have never foresaw that and

they don't even know what caused it.

495

They cannot figure it out.

496

They thought it was a stroke.

497

They tested.

498

Nope.

499

They don't know.

500

It was just some random thing.

501

So love your life now.

502

Love yourself now.

503

Lacey: it was interesting

cause you were just talking.

504

I actually have had some of the similar

symptoms of like things feeling stuck

505

in my throat and that wasn't like the

worst thing for me, but it like, it's.

506

Is esef cephalic esophagitis.

507

I can never say it's eoe, but essentially

my throat produces too many, cells.

508

And it created a really rigid

pathway that food would get stuck.

509

And I'm sure you know this, the

minute that food stuck in you,

510

like for me it was, would be

eating, I didn't feel it yet.

511

And then I would drink something

and the water wouldn't go down.

512

So then when the water doesn't go

down, it's got to come back up.

513

And Oh, if you want to scare some people,

run from a table in a Mexican restaurant

514

while being like, take care of my kids,

I got to go spit stuff out and hopefully

515

Shannon: you know, it will.

516

Yeah.

517

So they, narrowed my down to

dysphagia because that's about

518

as close as it would get.

519

and I, yeah, those medical

terms are crazy, right?

520

they're like, what do they call it?

521

I'm like, they call it this.

522

Lacey: I, one of the big things too

that I've learned in my journey, and

523

I think you would, hearing you be

like, they still don't know what it

524

was, diagnosis is nothing to do with

what's actually going on with you.

525

It's just a way for

people to categorize you.

526

Shannon: It really

527

is.

528

It really

529

is.

530

Lacey: And so what my main, diagnosis

ended up being is chronic fatigue

531

syndrome, which is like this whole

host of it could be this and this.

532

but when I realized I'm like, oh,

you don't have any solutions for it.

533

So you just needed to be

able to give me a label.

534

And then I'm now figuring out

the right ways to take care

535

of myself because of that.

536

A diagnosis is important in a

lot of ways, but it's also so

537

arbitrary, and sometimes not helpful.

538

Shannon: we can't really

do anything for you.

539

The best they could do for

me as I had medications that

540

relaxed my throat muscles.

541

Cause my throat muscles would spasm.

542

Like I could feel these like spasms.

543

And so I had medication for spasms.

544

I've had medication for the acid to reduce

the acid because it would just come up.

545

Like I tell people, you don't, Understand

what it's like to go to sleep and

546

you wake up and nothing's working and

stomach acid, like you, I was blowing

547

it out of my nose every morning.

548

And so it's yeah, there's

one thing is wrong with me.

549

Because they have to put a

label, like there's one thing's

550

wrong, but then there's all these

subsequent things that happen.

551

And it's, I think it's it's

different for everybody, right?

552

everybody's little nuances that come out

of that one big category that they have.

553

Like I had the regurgitation

and all of these things.

554

I had pain.

555

It was so painful at times.

556

And I feel like I know my

experience because I experienced it.

557

But if somebody told me.

558

That they had something

else going on with them.

559

I could only sympathize.

560

I couldn't even empathize, And I could

only imagine because I do sometimes

561

feel like when people say, what's

going on, what's wrong when you say it

562

out loud, it doesn't sound terrible,

but when you're experiencing is you

563

don't understand, there's nothing,

there's no words that I can give you

564

to tell you how this truly feels.

565

I can try to describe it.

566

And I think even going to

medical professionals, right?

567

how do you feel you describe it?

568

And you're like, it's like this,

but it's because it's so hard to

569

describe, when stuff like that

happens, it's very traumatic.

570

I think for a long time, I didn't want

to say Oh, this was traumatic for me,

571

but it was, especially in the beginning,

it was very traumatic, I think now I

572

can finally say, yeah, it was traumatic.

573

cause at the time I was just in it, when

574

you're in that, maybe

you're just in it anyway.

575

so now I can say it was probably

one of the most traumatic things

576

I've ever been through, in my life.

577

And I think what made it the

most traumatizing is that it's

578

your own body hurting you.

579

Like other people have hurt

me and caused me trauma.

580

But it's like your own body attacking you.

581

That's how I felt.

582

I'm attacking me.

583

I can do to stop it.

584

that was like one of my lowest

of lows was just like feeling

585

like I was at war with myself.

586

And I just was trying to tell my

body like, get your act together, stop

587

this, it's like this helpless feeling.

588

There's nowhere you can run and you have

to be there and you have to be with it.

589

it can be very lonely.

590

Even if you have support,

it can be very lonely.

591

You can feel like a burden.

592

There's all these things that

go through your mind yet, right?

593

Like the feeling like a burden.

594

Lacey (2): all the time

595

.

Shannon: A caregiver.

596

A teacher for 15 years and I know

what it's like being a caregiver

597

and what that can take from you.

598

And then I have my own kids

and, just doing the things.

599

And I'm thinking when you really have

to care for somebody who's sick, like

600

sick, sick, it's just not normal.

601

Like normal caretaking

can take it out of you,

602

but you know, my husband.

603

To make sure I was taking my medicine

and make sure I'm trying to eat,

604

make sure I'm doing all this,

everybody's always checking out.

605

I'm like, I know that where's a person

that wears the other person down.

606

And then you feel bad about that too.

607

Lacey: I'm actually really curious

about, so I have two small children.

608

I have a three and a five year old

and motherhood and my chronic illness

609

is one of the most difficult parts

for me because caretaking is a lot.

610

Like you said, I saw this woman

who, and now I wish I remembered her

611

name so I could send people to her.

612

She talked about how

motherhood is a relationship.

613

But being a mom is caretaking.

614

And if you separate those two

things out, you can really embrace

615

motherhood and not like caretaking.

616

I'm like, Oh, I don't like caretaking.

617

And for me, it's also important to that.

618

Like I struggle with caretaking

because I don't have the energy to

619

do it, but I'm still a good mom.

620

You know what I mean?

621

I still have that good

relationship with my kids.

622

And so I'm curious, since your kids were

older, like, how did that feel for you?

623

I'm just curious if it was more

emotionally difficult instead

624

of like physically difficult.

625

Shannon: I actually felt cause they were,

some of them were grownups at the time.

626

Like my, one of my

daughters was still at home.

627

there's six of them all together.

628

the older ones, there was, they

were on doing their own thing,

629

the ones that were still at home.

630

I actually felt like it brought

us closer emotionally because

631

teenagers typically pull away

632

from their parents.

633

They want to do their thing, but my

kids would come because, I would go to

634

work, I'd come home, I'd get in my bed.

635

that was my life.

636

I lived in my bed when I wasn't at work.

637

And they would come and lay in bed with

me every night and just talk to me.

638

So I feel like it actually brought

them closer to me in a way.

639

I think they just felt

really sorry for me.

640

And I know they were worried about me.

641

But, they had the mind that they

wanted the time and sit with me

642

and they made an effort to do that.

643

So I think it brought us closer.

644

But what I will say is during

all that time, that's when I

645

started having my grandbabies.

646

And so I could see where

you're coming from.

647

Cause the medications I were on the

night medication, once I took it dead

648

to the world, you could not wake me up.

649

I was done.

650

I'll see you in eight hours.

651

And when my daughter had her baby and then

my other daughter had her baby because

652

I was still on those medications when

my other daughter had her baby, one of

653

the things I always wanted to do when

my girls had children was to go over

654

and help them through the night, all

those hard parts at night when you're

655

tired and all this stuff and I couldn't,

656

and they're very understanding,

you know what I'm

657

saying?

658

Lacey: but I

659

feel that in my soul for you

660

Shannon: Cause I always wanted that.

661

Like it was like me and my husband, my

kids, like I didn't have I guess to me

662

it was always that dream that you see

on TV where the mama comes and stays for

663

a week and she helps clean up and cook.

664

And had any of that.

665

I always had to do all of

that on my own with my kids.

666

And it's hard enough to do it

on your own when you're healthy.

667

And I wanted to be that help for my kids.

668

And I felt really crappy that I couldn't

like that hurt my heart because I was

669

like, let me help you change a diaper

or just sit here so you can take a

670

shower so I was there during births

and I got to experience that with them

671

and like during the daytime, but other

than that, I just wasn't very helpful.

672

And so I can see when you have a

young, don't have this option, right?

673

Lacey, like you don't have the option.

674

I had the option as a grandma

to say, okay, he could come

675

over here for two hours.

676

I have two hours in me.

677

But you don't have that option.

678

Like I tell them right

now, I could not do that.

679

Even to this day, I'm still

getting my life back together.

680

I'm still trying to get

my health back together.

681

yeah, I gained weight,

but I need to get healthy.

682

There's a difference, How

you look, your body doesn't

683

necessarily mean you're healthy.

684

As far as I need good foods and

good nutrition and all this stuff.

685

And I'm getting older.

686

I try to blame it on my

health instead of age.

687

It's just, but I always tell them like.

688

once I got off all my medication,

I'm like, okay, they can spend

689

the night, but not if they still

get up in the middle of the night.

690

Cause I still but it was just

different things to tell him.

691

This is my capacity.

692

And Once that capacity is gone,

you gotta come get your baby.

693

Or you gotta ask your daddy if

he's going to take over because.

694

I can't.

695

And for you, full time mom, you

can't be like, well, I ain't

696

got the capacity right now.

697

You know what I'm saying?

698

You can't do that.

699

And so definitely finding

ways to navigate through that.

700

I don't know how you do it because.

701

Lacey: I have a fantastic partner.

702

That's how I do it.

703

My husband is wonderful and I

do have the mom that can show up

704

and help and she absolutely does.

705

And I'm so thankful for that.

706

But when you were talking

about with your kids.

707

That's what my kids do too, though.

708

So it made me happy.

709

Like they'll come in randomly

and lay with me and snuggle in

710

and they might bring a tablet and

watch it and I'm like, that's fine.

711

And we're just laying there

together and that kind of stuff.

712

So my, my son, he was three

when I was first, struggling.

713

And we like came up with a song

that we were doing cuddle chats.

714

And so we called them cuddle chats

and sing a song, that kind of stuff.

715

there's something so beautiful

about it being universal that was

716

something that you got with your kids.

717

Cause I agree.

718

My kids chose to come lay with me.

719

my kids are great chatters because I'm

a great chatter, but it was another way

720

to do that, and it has made them more.

721

empathetic in a lot of ways.

722

And I'm very proud of them for that.

723

Shannon: Yeah.

724

And I think as women in general, I

think one of the things that I learned

725

is that we take on so much of the

responsibility of so many things, but

726

like even cultivating relationships,

whether that's our kids, our spouses,

727

just people in general, I think we're

raised like the woman cultivates

728

the relationship in those ways.

729

Like you go see, do your

kids need something?

730

Do you want to talk to you?

731

And I think this is a beautiful Testament

to say, That you can actually sit back

732

and receive, that's another thing that

I learned too, giving is beautiful.

733

I love to give, but I gave

so much I had nothing left.

734

And what I learned from this is

that the receiving, and I think

735

sometimes it's uncomfortable.

736

Like for me, at first

it was uncomfortable.

737

I felt weird.

738

do you just pity me?

739

You know what I'm saying?

740

Like these things, I felt weird about it.

741

But then it allowed me to receive

and allowed me to receive love

742

that just came to me, right?

743

Like I don't have to do anything.

744

I don't have to clean stuff.

745

I don't have to do cute things

for like just genuine love.

746

And it just really opened

me up to the idea that.

747

I can receive, cause I always had a

hard time receiving like anything.

748

And so it just really

opened that up into me.

749

And it was, it's just this

beautiful connection, right?

750

It's so beautiful when like your kids

come and they lay with you and it's

751

they just want to be here with me.

752

and it can make like the worst days.

753

Like it just makes you smile.

754

This is it right here.

755

Lacey: first of all, thank you for sharing

so openly I just don't feel like we hear

756

stories of chronic illness very often.

757

our society and I don't want to say

this, like one is worse than the

758

other, but like you hear a lot of

stories when maybe somebody has a

759

terminal illness or that kind of thing.

760

But when it comes to chronic illness,

People don't know how to deal with

761

it because there's not an end.

762

The entire thing is a messy middle, right?

763

and so I just really appreciate when

anyone with chronic illness talks about

764

what that looked like for them and

how they make it work and that kind of

765

stuff and really get to the other side.

766

Cause it to me like you have

really gotten to the other side.

767

I'm sure it's always going to be a worry

and a concern for you that you're always

768

going to be taking care of and managing.

769

But you've gotten to a more livable place.

770

Shannon: I really have.

771

And I think at the end of the day, even

if I was still eating puree food or even

772

if it had got to a point of having to get

that feeding tube, I think coming out of

773

it, Was more of the mental shift, right?

774

Like even if your

physical never catches up.

775

So I would say to anybody, if your

physical never catches up your

776

mental, I believe it will because

my mental and where I felt how I

777

thought and all of that healing that

I went through that happened before.

778

The medical condition improved.

779

That happened when I was at my

worst of my worst physically.

780

And so I feel like there is always

something to gain in even the worst of

781

times and the worst times of my life from

the time I was five until this happened.

782

Something always good came from it

783

I don't know.

784

That's just me.

785

That's just how I see life.

786

I might have rose colored glasses on it.

787

I don't care.

788

I'm going to wear them because

it feels good to me, And there

789

are going to be struggles.

790

And I mean, I'm still working on things,

I don't ever believe there's an end.

791

There really never is an end.

792

It is truly a journey and

you just walk your journey.

793

You keep going.

794

There's highs, there's lows,

but just love it and love life.

795

that's really what I got from this.

796

It's just stop worrying about the

past, stop fixating on the future and

797

just be where you are in the present

moment and enjoy everything around

798

you that life just passes us by on.

799

Because even with chronic illness

Society as a whole is no, we just

800

need you to be productive for whatever

we need you to be productive for.

801

they don't want to acknowledge it.

802

I think, because then it puts a kind

of a wrench in, different things in our

803

society, but it's real and it's true.

804

And our society, that's just me.

805

I think society is a little

too fast paced anyway.

806

I don't think are

supposed to live this way.

807

But when you add chronic illness into

it, it makes it that much harder.

808

think there's, sometimes

people like just get over it.

809

Or I think I saw a video the other day

about like someone go to the doctor and

810

they're like, what's your pain level.

811

you don't look like you're in your pain.

812

you get used to the pain, right?

813

people are suffering through every

day and they don't look like it.

814

But they are, because they're just

going to show up with their best foot

815

forward or whatever we want to call it.

816

But they're truly in pain

and trying to just make it.

817

Lacey: I feel like that was really

good advice, but is there another

818

piece of advice you'd want to give?

819

Shannon: I think what I would give

specifically to a person who is in

820

their messy middle, whatever they're

experiencing is to love yourself fiercely.

821

And I want them to know that

loving yourself, isn't selfish.

822

It's the best thing that

you can do for yourself, for

823

everybody around you is to just.

824

Love on you and be okay with where you

are and just love every messy little

825

part of it, whatever that is, because

I really think you will find strength

826

in the love that you have for yourself

to move on and to get through and to

827

just keep going through what you're

going through because you love yourself.

828

And you know what?

829

I'm going to love myself no matter

what it feels like right now.

830

I love me.

831

And I think that love that we're not

taught to give to ourself is some of

832

the best medicine that we can have

because sometimes it's all we have.

833

Lacey: thank you for

chatting with me today.

834

Where can people find work

with you, that kind of stuff.

835

Shannon: So you can find me,

I have two Instagram channels.

836

One's coaching with Shannon Kaye.

837

I have another one for my podcast, the

live life unapologetically podcast at

838

Shannon Kaye pod talk, but mostly you

can find me at coaching with Shannon Kaye

839

on socials, or you can connect with me

through the live life unapologetically

840

pod, , live life unapologetically.

841

com.

842

Has all of my information on there

and how you can work with me and

843

the different things that I offer.

844

Lacey: And it'll be in show notes

people can always find it there too.

845

Well, thank you for sharing

the middle with me today.

846

Shannon: Thank you for having me on.