Welcome to No Shame in the Home Game, the podcast that cares

2

how your home feels, not looks.

3

I am Lacey, your co host, excited to

be in the room where it's happening,

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So I'm going to introduce our co host who

knows what's happening, and that's Sarah.

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Sara: Hi,

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Lacey: Sarah.

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Sara: Hi, Lacey.

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when you said that it automatically

triggered Hamilton in my head.

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I know

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Lacey: I was like, I know Hamilton's

not cool anymore, but it's okay.

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Sara: It's forever cool.

12

So we are in the room

where it's going to happen.

13

Yes.

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I have brought on today, an expert

that I am very excited about my friend,

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Erin, who will introduce us today.

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Herself in a second.

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Erin and I have known one another for at

least 12 years in different capacities.

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We used to live near one another.

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Now we live in different states,

but we have continued to grow

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together, which I think is amazing.

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And.

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Such a beautiful opportunity.

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Erin has served as my coach and I say

to everyone who will listen, I wouldn't

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be where I am today without Erin.

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so Erin, if you would like to

introduce yourself just a little

26

bit about who you are, where you are

and the type of work that you do,

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whatever you're comfortable sharing.

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Erin: Thank you.

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Thank you, Lacey and Sarah.

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And that was a nice introduction.

31

thanks for inviting me on your show.

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I love what you two are doing

and, how you support everybody.

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And I love how you two

get along on this show.

34

It's very, very sweet.

35

My name is Erin Johnson, and

I'm a certified life coach, and

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I work primarily with women.

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In and around midlife who are

stuck or out of balance, and I

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help them recenter for success.

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I got into this coaching profession

because in my early 40s, there

40

were areas of my life which

were pretty out of balance.

41

I was over angry.

42

If that's a phrase, I was over resentful.

43

I was over drinking.

44

And at that time I was doing

a lot of finger pointing and

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blaming others for my behavior.

46

And there's a story I call clean up on

aisle four that I won't tell right now,

47

but that led me to hiring a life coach.

48

And through coaching with Juliet,

she helped me see where I was not

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paying attention to my own thoughts.

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And that was something

that I was never taught.

51

To look at my thoughts and thread them

to my feelings and then to my actions.

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And that's how I ended up in this

profession and helping others,

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primarily women, becoming aware

of their thoughts and helping them

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clear their clutter in their brain.

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what you do in the home.

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So yeah, that's where I'm at.

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Sara: That's such a cool way to phrase it.

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I'd never thought of it that way, but

yeah, clearing the clutter of your

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thoughts and you were describing about

tuning in with your thoughts and your

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feelings and taking ownership, like

all that good stuff, I just thought.

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Oh, one day this will be

taught in primary school.

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This will be a foundation instead

of learning it after the pain point.

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Can you imagine learning all of this?

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the world would be a different place.

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So yes, when I started working

with Erin, it was exactly that.

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I was in my 40s.

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And it was just like,

nothing feels good, man.

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Like I just was itchy in

every department of my life.

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And I just, I did, I had that now or

never just do I want to change things

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or do I want it to keep being like this?

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So I'm thankful for the work that you do.

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it was through your discomfort

that you came to this.

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And it's through my own

discomfort that I came to a lot

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of the work that I do as well.

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And it's through Lacey's discomfort that

she came to the middle and her journey.

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So it is nice.

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I want to honor and appreciate this moment

of we all took that discomfort and not

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only moved through it, but decided to.

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Help others, which I think

is what we can do in life.

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Lacey: Can I say that I'm really excited

to talk to Erin because I believe she is

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the originator of the joy ripple concept.

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Yes.

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you're like a celebrity to me because I'm

like, Oh, this is a big deal in my life.

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So thank you.

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Sara: Yeah.

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This picture right over my shoulder.

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It was right after I worked with Erin

and she was explaining to me, if we

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feel better and then what we put out

and then that touches someone else.

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And then I went on a trip and I saw

this and it's hard to tell from far

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away, but they're teeny tiny dots.

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Like we're always

affecting those around us.

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are we putting out there?

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So yes, Erin is the epicenter.

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And the reason we brought you on is

because when I work with clients.

95

even though I can work with anyone and

I will, they're almost always women.

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And when I describe the type of work

that I do, helping identify pain points

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in the house so that your house can

run smoother, about 50 percent of the

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time, if not more, the response is,

Oh, so you can deal with my family.

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And I always say, I'm not a therapist,

but I value how you feel and I

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understand, and you're not alone.

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bringing you on, I thought that would be

a really great opportunity to talk about

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when you're living with others, you can't

control what other people do much as we

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want to, It's easy for tension to come up.

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Somebody wants something

done a certain way.

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Somebody walks in feeling a

way that doesn't line up with

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what needs to get done, right?

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We all walk in with our own stories

and situations and then those

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often bump up against one another.

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And expectations, usually one

person wants it a little bit more

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picked up than the other person.

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expectations aren't lining up.

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The values are different.

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So there tends to be that tension point.

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so when I say all of that,

Erin, where does that take

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you in your thought process?

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where does that start to like

tingle inside your brain?

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Erin: Yeah, I love how you said

that when things start to bump up

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against each other, and I think that

a lot of us would love to see the

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world change so that we feel better.

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there's the, if only they did

something different or they behave

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differently, they should, they

shouldn't do that so that I feel better.

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It really gives us no power.

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It gives us no place to own.

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where we're at and to move forward and

feeling better just because we decide to.

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So what I'm learning in life and how

I work with my clients is, let's say

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that they're never going to change.

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How do you now look at that

differently so that you don't get,

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bristled every time that happens?

129

Because if they're not going to change,

the one that has to change is you.

130

And it really does, to me, it

comes down to the thoughts.

131

I know we generally feel like it's our

feelings that we feel, we feel aggravated

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or annoyed or angry or resentful.

133

And if we pause and we go back,

there's a thought that has

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now triggered that feeling.

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And so if we can come to that

thought, and isolate that, then

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we have something to work with.

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Sara: So there's so many ways to go.

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Lacey: my initial reaction

is like, but I want them to

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Sara: That was my first thought was

people listening are gonna have that

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recoil of, but if they only took

out the trash when I told them to.

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Right,

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Erin: so if we look at the reality.

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The reality is.

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The trash is not taken out, we disempower

ourselves when we say, that should be and

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because it isn't, I don't feel good now.

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So Byron Katie, who is, an incredible

teacher, she says, When we argue

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with reality, we lose, but only

100 percent of the time, right?

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So if the reality is the trash is not

taken out, then it's our responsibility

149

to look at our thoughts around that.

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And I know it's it's can be

like nails on a chalkboard.

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but, we've said it 50 times, just do

your job, just take out the trash, and

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if the reality is it's not done, if we

give our power away and not feel good

153

because the trash is not taken out,

we're losing, we're, we're losing.

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Sara: I want to understand, so you

come home, the trash isn't taken out,

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even though the task was assigned,

you see the trash, and then you

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get angry, so you're disempowering

yourself, because you're letting the

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trash then control your emotions.

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Is that what you're saying?

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Yep.

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everyone listening is like,

yeah, I've already gone through

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50 of these situations today.

162

So then what's the, first step

into this to somebody who has never

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tried to challenge That process

of seeing something, getting

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upset, feeling upset, yelling,

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It's like the circular

pattern that happens.

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So somebody is like, it doesn't feel good.

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I want it to change.

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Okay.

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I see the trash.

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What's the first step to not

letting that cycle just happen.

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Erin: Yeah.

172

Not get carried away with the emotion.

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I say that if we can become

aware, Oh, I'm feeling angry.

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And it's the awareness of almost

like the third person, Oh, look at

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you're getting angry at the trash and

then just pausing and noticing that

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you're getting angry and it's okay.

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Not beating ourselves up, not

judging ourselves for getting

178

angry and then going to, okay,

what is the thought process here?

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What's the thought that's triggering this?

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If you look at the neutral fact, the

fact is that the trash is sitting there.

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The trash is not out.

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We're making it mean something

that's causing anger.

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Somebody else might walk in and not be

angry that the trash is sitting there.

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how we're taking that circumstance that

is pretty neutral, we're making it mean

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something that's causing now a feeling.

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can we look at our thought?

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What's the thought behind it?

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I feel disrespected because

nobody listened to me.

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I feel that I'm the only

responsible one here.

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If we can get to that thought,

that is what we can work with.

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Is it true that, that person, say it's my

son, that my son disrespected me because

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he didn't do what I asked him to do?

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Is it true that he doesn't respect me

because he didn't take the trash out?

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so then you start to challenge

your thought process.

195

You start to actually look

at your thoughts because your

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thoughts are causing the feelings.

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And If you're not liking the angry

feeling, and then the actions that

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follow, maybe it's, you're yelling,

then you create separation, or you

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get passive aggressive, it's time to

look at the thoughts causing that.

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Lacey: I've been doing a binge

background watch of The Good

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Place in the past few weeks.

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It's such a beautiful show to

have under the background as you

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like work because it's so joyful,

but also thought provoking.

204

And so I've been thinking

about philosophy a lot.

205

And one of the things that

keeps coming up is this what do

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we owe each other part of it.

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And I definitely feel that personal

responsibility of I can control my

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response But I think a bridge to like

communicating to the person about what.

209

we want from our house and what

we owe each other, what those

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values and standards are, also

still needs to happen, right?

211

Erin: Absolutely.

212

I am definitely not saying that you

need to just suck it up and, take

213

out the trash because it's not done.

214

I also think that, going along with

representing your thoughts, there is

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that Bridge as you eloquently put it

into communication and can we communicate

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authentically Hey, my son's name is Caleb.

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Hey, Caleb.

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I noticed that I get really angry

because the trash wasn't out.

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And I don't like to get angry

so I'm going to just pause.

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And let's have a conversation about this.

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I had an expectation, you didn't do it.

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Can we talk about, is there a

reason you didn't do the trash?

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But not making them bad or wrong.

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Not making me better or right in it.

225

Just getting really curious of,

why didn't the trash get out?

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Noticing I had an expectation.

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Noticing it wasn't meant.

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And then what that did to me.

229

And then in that conversation, maybe he,

I don't know, maybe broke his toe in the

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morning and he couldn't deal with it.

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Or maybe he had, something come

up and he completely forgot.

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I think what happens is we

have this instant feeling.

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We try to justify our anger or

whatever emotion is coming up

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and we start to point fingers.

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It's your fault.

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This isn't done.

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Why isn't this done?

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You're bad and wrong.

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I'm right because I asked you.

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And now we have this big separation here.

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And so coming to it with

authentic communication of,

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Hey, this is a little stinky.

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Do we want to live in a

house that's getting stinky?

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Do we want to live and have that

authentic, but also be curious

245

of what they're going through

and why they didn't go for it.

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I think that's, there's a lot of

power in authentic communication.

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Lacey: I also think there's

a lot of power in curiosity.

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I think people respond more to curiosity

than to almost any other like approach.

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I think something as someone's listening

to this, I just remind you that

250

sometimes another person's reaction,

may still be a little aggressive because

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that's the tone that they're used to.

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So don't just do this once.

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You have to keep trying.

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that's a thing that I know, between my

husband and I, I'll, say something and I

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think it's very neutral but he still takes

it into that aggressive place because that

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had been our communication for so long.

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so you just have to keep trying and

enforcing it and not just trying once.

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Erin: Definitely a practice.

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Sara: as you were talking, I was

writing down notes, and what I did

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was, on one side, it's that pattern.

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Trash, you have instant upsetness,

Turns into anger and rage.

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And then that justification, why

am I always doing everything?

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Why doesn't anyone help me write that

very like black and white thinking.

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And it's, just the circular.

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And then I drew a line from the

trash over to the side, instead

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of a circle of just observe.

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So it's like the first step

is just that observing.

268

And I remember one time me and you

had a conversation and we were talking

269

about that expression of a short fuse.

270

And how the two, this is very

simplified, but the parts of the

271

brain, I always think of the lizard

part of your brain, which is survival.

272

And then the, what do you, what would

you call the other part of your brain?

273

The deep thought it's more the executive

functioning, executive functioning.

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Okay.

275

So in that short fuse is

going to that survival

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You're just reacting like

something didn't happen.

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Oh my gosh, just a little

level 10 emergency.

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I'm so mad I feel threatened versus taking

that deep breath and just observing it

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like you said which I think if I think

that's just the first step That is almost

280

the hardest is breaking that Am I going

to go level 10, light things on fire?

281

we've all been there.

282

Like I throw everything in a dumpster

and everyone can just go take

283

care of themselves in the woods.

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I don't care.

285

Or are you going to take a deep breath

and just observe that rage versus acting

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on the, that's mindfulness, right?

287

That's huge.

288

Yeah.

289

Yeah.

290

I don't want to understate that

is that first step, because

291

we're so used to reacting.

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Somebody cut me off.

293

I'm mad.

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Somebody didn't start the dryer.

295

I'm mad.

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it gets so ingrained in us.

297

So to change that pattern,

yeah, a lot of attention.

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Erin: It does.

299

if we talk neuroscience just on the

basics that I know, it's the, like you

300

said, that pathway is very well worn.

301

So if that is generally what you

do and how you respond, it is,

302

it's the trigger response effect.

303

And I like to say that if we can put

a gap in there, so there's trigger

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response, trash not out, I am pissed.

305

then it kind of reactivates.

306

It strengthens that pathway.

307

That's what we do.

308

We go right into amygdala.

309

We're threatened.

310

I'm going to react.

311

And then if we can take that pause

and notice, Oh, trash is not out.

312

Oh, I'm feeling my body and different

feelings cause different body sensations.

313

So if you can start to

even name, Oh, I'm angry.

314

my, my jaw is clenched.

315

my heart is beating.

316

That will actually get you

out of the reaction state.

317

and will allow you to go into that longer

response mode where it goes through the

318

executive function and then you say, Oh,

and that's where you start to practice.

319

Oh, I'm, I wonder why it didn't happen.

320

I'm curious what happened to this, to

the scenario that I asked, to my request.

321

that's where you get to

get into the curiosity.

322

There's no curiosity in that,

fight, flight, freeze response.

323

It's more like you said, it's

that primal, I need to survive.

324

Trash not being taken

out is not a survival.

325

However, we can react like it is.

326

we can go into sympathetic, nervous

system where our heart rate goes

327

up, our breathing gets, erratic,

our pupils dilate, muscles get

328

fired up, ready to run or fight.

329

And it's really being able to

say, wow, okay, let me take a

330

breath and now let me respond.

331

It's so practice, as Lacey said,

it's practice, practice with that.

332

Lacey: I had a huge realization

as you were just talking.

333

So my son, we've been working on this.

334

He has a lot of big feelings and

big emotions and they take over him.

335

And what I keep saying to him is.

336

I just need you to stop.

337

I don't care what you do like after

that, but I just need you to focus on

338

just stopping that moment that you start

to feel that just focus on stopping.

339

And I'm realizing that's great advice

for anybody because I think sometimes

340

we get so, and this is something we talk

about a lot in home management of we

341

get so bogged down with the later steps

that we don't take that first step.

342

So even if someone can just

take the message of just stop

343

in that moment, you have.

344

done some change, right?

345

You're paving that pathway

to get to that next step.

346

I think that's really just a great

place to start for someone who gets

347

into this cycle and pattern is if I can

just stop, that is enough for today.

348

I've pushed, I've made a difference,

I've made a change and I can do

349

more tomorrow or just again, stop

and then figure out from there.

350

Sara: Yeah.

351

I like that.

352

And again, to people listening,

we're not saying this because

353

we can say these words.

354

We're not saying it's easy

because I've gone through this.

355

It has taken me years.

356

I would find the space

to not lose my shit.

357

This is gonna be a swearing episode

and I would at least have a second.

358

so instead of losing my shit immediately,

I would have a second, right?

359

And then I would still lose my shit.

360

And then it became five seconds

and then it became I was able to

361

walk out the door and basically

have my little tantrum outside.

362

So at least the energy wasn't in the

house, I was just increasing that fuse

363

like just a little bit, just a little bit.

364

some days.

365

I can see myself, I can get mindful,

I can get curious, but I'll be honest.

366

Those are the days when I'm well rested,

when I don't feel overwhelmed or rushed.

367

And so that brings me to my question,

which is, I know it's not life or

368

death, but I think in our day and

age, I might be being dramatic.

369

I don't know.

370

I think it feels like life or death.

371

I think, especially to

women with the expectations.

372

Working, having kids, maintaining the

house, thinking our houses have to look

373

a certain way, thinking our kids need to

show up in society looking a certain way.

374

I think that amount of pressure, actually

feels legitimately like survival.

375

Tell me what you two ladies think of that.

376

Erin: What stuck out for me is the

word pressure that you just said.

377

And I agree with you.

378

I think we put a lot as moms, as

women, as, CEOs of our home, as career

379

people, we put a lot of pressure on

ourselves to show up certain ways.

380

I think what's been helpful for me is

to be able to notice where I put that

381

pressure on and really start to question.

382

Is that real?

383

Do I need to actually do that?

384

What happens if I don't?

385

What happens if this doesn't happen?

386

And that has allowed me, and

like you said, over the years

387

it's been quite a practice.

388

It's allowed me to release, it's almost

like if a, If an inner tube is so

389

blown up, it's about to pop, right?

390

You start to release the

pressure on it with that valve.

391

It starts to get more

manageable, more pliable, softer.

392

And so that's how I've been starting

to look at things of, am I really,

393

do I really need to do this?

394

Does this really matter at this moment?

395

And if that can release the

pressure off myself, then things

396

just become softer for me.

397

Sara: that makes me think of our last

episode, Lacey and I did, we went deep

398

into the good, better, best mindset.

399

And I related a story about when my son

was little and it was very challenging

400

for several reasons outside of my control.

401

And what I did was after a certain amount

of time, I was like, if I'm going to

402

live, I have to claim survival days.

403

And so in the good, better, best

scenario, good enough is each of us eat

404

some food, maybe some clean clothes,

maybe one of us gets a bath, and I

405

said, that's all I have to do today.

406

That's it.

407

And once I adjusted to a survival

day, that pressure melted away.

408

I wasn't worried about the grocery list.

409

I wasn't worried about making a meal or

opening the mail or doing the laundry.

410

I just removed all of that from my

mental plate and it just created space.

411

For things to be easier.

412

I like that example of the

inner tube and if you hit one

413

thing wrong, it just goes off.

414

And that makes me think too about kids.

415

It's I think what's really a powerful

tool and equally scary is when

416

we start to see our kids react.

417

The way we react to things.

418

Lacey: Yes.

419

Sara: They hear

420

Lacey: their little voices say something,

you're like, Oh, I know that was me.

421

I can hear it.

422

Sara: Right.

423

And you realize, going back to

the top of this conversation,

424

if we learned these fundamental

things when we were little kids.

425

about stopping, observing, taking

a breath, being curious, right?

426

Like how different the world

would be if we grew up with that.

427

another tool, another thing that I wrote

down, about when you were talking about

428

being curious a tool that I use sometimes

in my head is kind of a joke what was that

429

show from like the 60s it was black and

white dragnet maybe it was just the facts

430

ma'am do you remember that Because these

police officers would show up and there's

431

usually a lot of emotions and people

are starting to say things and they're

432

telling this big elaborate whatever and

the cop would always say just the facts.

433

So I thought about that's

a good tool to maybe use.

434

Is sometimes to just be like,

okay, what are just the facts?

435

imagine you're showing up to a

scene and there is no backstory.

436

It's what are just the

facts in this situation?

437

Erin: that goes back to if somebody

else walked into your house and

438

they saw the trash, they likely

would not have the same reaction.

439

They're looking at the same fact.

440

The fact is the trash is

maybe it's overflowing.

441

There's a fact, right?

442

A fact is anything that a

camera would be able to record.

443

And then everybody looking at that is

going to have their own story, create

444

their own meaning around that fact.

445

And I think that's where we get

into, mom comes home, sees the

446

trash, that's the story, kid sees

the trash, but doesn't actually care

447

about the trash, that's their story.

448

And so having us trying to be on

the same story my brother and I,

449

both of our children are older and

they're living together right now.

450

and they're working a lot and

he just called me and he just

451

said, I have to vent this house.

452

And he just went off on the house

and how he can see things that

453

they can't, he says, you need to do

this and they're like, we did that.

454

and to him, it's not done the

way he expected it to be, but

455

in their minds, it's good.

456

They did it.

457

It's perfect, right?

458

So it's all how we interpret

that fact, if that makes sense.

459

Sara: That it does make sense.

460

And that goes back to that conversation

Lacey and I had about good, better, best.

461

And she was saying it was a great

conversation tool to have with

462

your partner because you start to

realize, Oh my, what they think is

463

best is actually only my good enough.

464

And it's like that whole thing

of Oh, the trash was taken out.

465

yeah, but you only set

it out in the back door.

466

It's out of the house, but

it's not in the trash bin.

467

And it's yeah, that again, getting

really clear on what the expectation is.

468

Now, something else I

want to go back to that.

469

I thought about, what if going back

to the mom, the overworked, tired

470

mom, managing the house, what about

getting fatigued of being curious

471

and having these conversations?

472

What do you say to the woman

who says, yes, I tried that.

473

And I'm tired.

474

I'm tired of being the only one who

notices, who gets curious, who has the

475

conversation, who does the prompts.

476

I'm just tired.

477

how do you deal with it from that point?

478

Erin: Well, if we're talking about

kind of the thread of the thoughts

479

here, I think it goes back to that.

480

What are the thoughts?

481

Nobody's listening to me.

482

They should.

483

They shouldn't.

484

They disrespect me.

485

I am tired of doing this.

486

That's going to set you up for a feeling.

487

And generally that feeling is

not going to feel really good.

488

And if you want to keep not feeling good,

then you don't challenge any of this.

489

You just keep going on, but generally

as moms, we want to feel good.

490

We want to be able to show up.

491

We want to be that role model.

492

We want to be able to hold a container

for everyone as we like to do.

493

My experience is, I'll say this,

my children are out of the house.

494

My children are grown.

495

I don't have littles

anymore running around.

496

And I know that when I

did, it's a whirlwind.

497

Your thoughts are constantly

on everyone and everything.

498

it's much more challenging at that time

to be able to look at the thought process.

499

I do think that being able to take that

breath, like everything we just talked

500

about, being able to take the breath,

looking at what pressures you're putting

501

on yourself, having that authentic

communication with your family about

502

how you're feeling, getting curious

about what other people are feeling.

503

bringing it in as a cohesive team.

504

How can we work together so that we're

all feeling better about this and being

505

able to challenge the thought of this

should be done because I asked for it.

506

But the reality is it's not done.

507

I think Byron Katie has something in

her book that says, she was so tired of

508

asking people to pick up their socks.

509

and that they weren't picking up their

socks, that she finally said, if this is

510

actually bothering me and only me, I'm

the one that needs to take care of this.

511

Because if it's not bothering anybody

else, my thought is they should be

512

doing it, but they're not, then I'm

the one that's going to do it, or

513

I'm not going to be bothered by it.

514

Sara: I'm sitting with that

because that is such a different

515

narrative than we hear usually.

516

I think I mentioned on one of our episodes

about a mom in our community who's got

517

five kids, both the parents work, they're

always going in different directions.

518

And I was asking her how she got

certain things in the house done.

519

And at a certain point,

she's like, you know.

520

Things aren't perfect.

521

There's usually dirty dishes.

522

There's usually piles of laundry.

523

people just sleep wherever they sleep.

524

There's not a lot of rules

and order in our house.

525

And she goes, and if I ever get

really stressed out or upset over

526

something, I realized I'm the only

one who's upset and stressed out.

527

And it was such a level

of just pure surrender.

528

is it Buddhism that, non attachment?

529

there was such this just level of zero

attachment to the way anything looked.

530

And I was like, wow, there's a

lot of power and peace in this.

531

Lacey: I was picturing myself as

that mom, who's so frustrated.

532

I'm tired of telling

people to do this and this.

533

And I read recently, treat

yourself like a plant.

534

And so in that moment, I would love

for that mom to be like, okay, hold on.

535

I'm a plant.

536

Am I fed, watered?

537

Have I gotten sunshine?

538

And that's just a formula of maybe

I just need to get a glass of water.

539

Like I can't control

what's happening here.

540

I'm going to get a glass of

water and then I'll come back.

541

Erin: I love how you said that I

can't control what's happening here.

542

I can't control other people.

543

What I can control is I can water

myself, I can get sunshine, I

544

can get rest, I can take a deep

breath, I can look at my thoughts.

545

So yes, there is being able to

surrender to the reality of what's

546

actually there in front of you and then

being able to take care of yourself.

547

I think that's a really good point.

548

Lacey: I also think that women in general,

obviously, when we've said this many

549

times, have a hard time putting their

needs as part of the whole equation.

550

And I think taking the judgment

away of I'm a mom, to just

551

be like, hey, I'm a plant.

552

What does a plant need?

553

there's this element of one,

playfulness, but also detaching

554

the judgment of objectively,

these are the things that I need.

555

What am I not having

in this moment as well?

556

So I think that's important too.

557

Sara: And I want to highlight, as we're

having this conversation, I'm remembering

558

it's also a stage in a phase of life.

559

Erin, you commented, your kids

aren't little anymore, but you

560

know that whirlwind feeling, right?

561

And how all of these pressures change as

our kids are at different ages, as our

562

responsibilities in life change, right?

563

And one of our participants from the

previous season, Miss Tyra, her boys

564

were grown and gone, and she had a

completely different set of, Time of

565

things she had to deal with like she

was no longer driving her kids around

566

all over town to different activities

and so it's there's also I think a

567

moment of remembering these chapters all

change it's like this now doesn't mean

568

like it's gonna be like this Always.

569

And I think we get lost in that and

forget to zoom out and see that overall

570

picture of this moment is not forever.

571

Lacey: as a mom of very small

children, I always need to hear that.

572

I'm so tired all the

time for so many reasons.

573

Sara: I said that to the mom's group

I was just with last month because

574

all their kids were five and under.

575

we all went around and said what

we were thankful for that day.

576

And I said, I was coming here.

577

I just packed my bags.

578

I got my stuff ready.

579

And I just looked at my family

and said, take care of yourself.

580

Be good.

581

And I walked out the door and I told

them, I was like, there will be a

582

day where you don't have to worry.

583

Is the bottle made?

584

Is, are there clean clothes laid out?

585

all those things.

586

And I was like, there's hope.

587

One day you can walk away and just

know they can take care of themselves.

588

this, again, there are just so

many different ways we could

589

go with this conversation.

590

but I think the biggest takeaway

for anyone listening is that

591

circle I was talking about, that

ingrained pattern we have of what

592

is it reacting versus responding.

593

Is that the difference?

594

So reacting into Anger without thinking

versus taking a beat and choosing

595

your response instead of letting

it just overcome and flood you.

596

I think that's the one

step where it all starts.

597

And that would be the way and

598

Erin: giving yourself the grace of

practicing that, we're gonna mess up,

599

we're gonna explode, we're going to

criticize and judge, we're going to blame

600

point fingers, we're going to get angry.

601

And that's okay.

602

We're humans to be able to just

take a breath right after that.

603

Sara: and even just.

604

Even if you can just shift, okay,

the feelings flood you, can you

605

just shift where it's coming out?

606

instead of yelling it at somebody, could

you yell it into a voice memo in your car?

607

Dance it out?

608

Could you dance?

609

Wiggle it out of your arms?

610

Interpretive dance?

611

could you call up a friend and say it?

612

Just, can you just listen to me?

613

or just write it down in your

journal and just at least change

614

that it's not directed at somebody.

615

I think about how I used to drive

in, DC traffic and I had a little

616

bit of road rage reaction and I used

to flip people off all the time.

617

And I was like, you know what?

618

This is dangerous.

619

Cause there's something to be some like

situations where people are getting hurt.

620

So I was like, okay, I

can still flip them off.

621

I just have to do it below the window.

622

So they can't see me.

623

like, okay, get mad,

but maybe just change.

624

Can you do it below the

window so nobody can see?

625

And that can be your first step forward.

626

Erin, is there anything else that

you wanted to share or any last

627

thoughts that you wanted to share?

628

Erin: to follow up with what you just

said about if you can change even the

629

smallest step in what you normally

do, any change is brain change.

630

So you starting to alter that

pathway a little bit in a new

631

direction, that is change.

632

and the reminder that this is, as we zoom

out, this is a very small period of time.

633

and I also like the, to come back to

the releasing the pressure on ourselves.

634

Sara: Yeah.

635

Yes, releasing the pressure.

636

I was just writing that down

because I like to remind myself to.

637

Any

638

Lacey: changes, brain change is

going to be sticking with me like

639

that for some reason really hit.

640

Sara: yeah.

641

and one final thought on that.

642

I also like the thought of Erin, I

think you called it pre paving, where

643

you rehearse in your mind something.

644

if you're used to getting mad in your

house at something not happening,

645

close your eyes and practice.

646

What would a different version of that

look like practice it in your brain

647

so that next time it happens, you can

actually go to, instead of going down

648

option path A, you can go down path B

because you've practiced it in your mind.

649

I've definitely worked

on that one as well.

650

Erin: Yeah.

651

Really good point.

652

Sara: Well, thank you so much, Erin,

for your time and for the work that

653

you're doing and that joy ripple

that you're putting out there.

654

it really is powerful and appreciated.

655

Erin: And thank you both, Sarah and

Lacey for all that you're doing to

656

support, moms and women and homes

and the ripple you're sending out.

657

Thanks for inviting me.

658

Thank you.