Show Notes
We are jumping back into my conversation with my dear friend, Emma. We dove deep into the nitty-gritty of life and discussed everything from personal growth and body image to the impact of our upbringing on our self-esteem and relationships.
Emma and I also had a wonderful conversation about our moms. We chatted about how they shaped our views on independence and motherhood and how these perspectives have influenced us and our hopes for our own children.
The tables turned for a bit too! Emma interviewed me, and we explored my internal struggles and how my relationship with myself and others has evolved over time. We reminisced about old friendships, my journey to self-acceptance, and the pressure society puts on us when it comes to body image and self-worth.
Lastly, I opened up about my ongoing battle with chronic illness. It’s been a tough journey, but I’ve learned so much. It’s changed how I approach life, motherhood, and how I pursue happiness. Our chat was a sincere reflection on life’s complexities, the roads to healing, and the transformative power of friendship and empathy. I can’t wait for you to hear it!
Thanks for Sharing The Middle with me today! I hope you got as much out of it as I did.
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Transcript
Welcome to sharing the middle. Where we try to see and feel seen by each other, by sharing our stories of the messy middles of life. I'm Lacey your. Guide through the middle. Fellow middler, whatever you want to call me. And this is part two of my conversation with my dear friend, Emma. And I'm going to be upfront with y'all that it gets pretty deep in this episode and you actually learn a lot about me and my. Internal world and so many other things. Putting this one out there. It's very vulnerable for me. But I have a feeling that there will be. several, if not many people. Who see a little bit of themselves in parts of it. We do talk about things like body image. Self-esteem. relationships, all that kind of stuff. So if any of that's a little triggering for you. Feel free to skip this one. I am again, so thankful for Emma for having this conversation, because what you'll hear is at some point she starts interviewing me, which I think is something that only a good friend. I can do. Of being like, no, no, no. Let's get to the meat and it is. Fantastic and wonderful. Let's dive back into my conversation with Emma so we can continue to tell my story through conversations of people in my life. Let's jump right in. I just love, I also love that we had very different parents and that, like your mom to me is like the symbol of an independent woman in a lot of ways. And I love that I had that to look at as oh, this is another option in life.
Emma:And like when things weren't. going to work out financially? She's nope, I'm going to make it work. And she started a second business and she worked two jobs and she was like the OG hustler of, I'm going to make this work and I'm going to keep this farm so my kids can grow up here. And I even remember turning, when I was 18, I was like, why are we still here? this is a lot of work. And she looked at us and she was like, I kept this house because I wanted you guys to have this childhood and now looking back I'm like how many memories do we have of running through those woods and the gator
Lacey:many.
Emma:and the birthday parties and the bonfires and it was just such a cool way to grow up that even now I'm like okay how can I give that to my kids like I don't want my kids to be raised in a neighborhood. They need some, they need a tree to climb. we don't even, we have one tree. They need multiple trees to climb. They need fields to run through. And it's just such a really cool, but we only had that because she wouldn't give up. Yeah. It's
Lacey:When she also was one of my first views of motherhood of she was her own person and a mother not. just a mother. And I don't want to, I don't say that to my mom is like the ultimate mother figure. And so that was always my standard. I'm like, Oh, you live up
Emma:exhausting.
Lacey:Yeah.
Emma:That's a lot of pressure.
Lacey:And so I have seen her be like, she's a mom. And she has her boundaries in places like, Lori would lock the door to her bedroom, which I respect so hard now.
Emma:know. I know.
Lacey:I respect so hard now. I don't even think I ever went into her room, it's so I just, but I'm just like, what a good boundary. I don't know. I just look back on some of those things that I did. that maybe I thought were like weird or Oh, why are they making that choice now? I'm like, Oh,
Emma:it makes sense.
Lacey:so hard.
Emma:Yes. It's so interesting you say that because I never saw it that way because I was living it, right? Now, because you've said that, I'm like, oh, that's why I never really wanted to stay home because she didn't, she's always worked so hard and she loved her job. And so finding a career that I loved, that I thrived in, but also finding a side gig that I loved while she did that also, it like our lives aligned so much more than I think what I would have ever put together until you said that.
Lacey:Oh, you guys are a lot alike now. When I see you're working out videos and food stuff, I'm like, Oh, I remember when Emma was salty that her mom had only healthy food.
Emma:And that's why I remember your family's burritos. Because yeah, we had, I can't believe it's not butter. And we did have easy Mac. We had peanut butter and jelly. We had a scallop chicken and noodles. We had all the fun stuff, but majority was
Lacey:low fat
Emma:Yes. Yes. That low fat generation, man.
Lacey:I was, but I was just thinking about that the other day. I'm like, oh, she's become Lori in a lot of ways. Which is funny because you would have thought it was Abby, but no.
Emma:Nope.
Lacey:It came around to you. Yes. Which
Emma:Which is funny because Abby's so nurturing now. It's wild because my sister growing up she, I feel like everybody was scared of her. And like she intimidated
Lacey:But she always liked me,
Emma:did always But she is the softest, cuddliest human on the planet. She It's she loves to tie dye, she loves to read books, she loves she's a teacher and so she loves her job and she just, It is so wild to see her switch so dramatically into this, soft, cuddly bear who,
Lacey:who dye
Emma:and knit and she's the sewer of the family and she loves to cook and she houses us every holiday because she's so much of a better cook than I am and, yeah, it's I,
Lacey:like, I logically know it. I've seen it. I'm friends with Abby on Facebook, but I'm also like, I don't know. Abby's voice always
Emma:Got you. Scary. She's the scary one. That's how I felt about Paige's sister, too. Do you
Lacey:Oh, yeah.
Emma:But your sisters were never scary.
Lacey:No. No, they weren't.
Emma:I think Rob was the scariest out of all of them. Yeah. But that's just because I was never exposed to a brother. Yeah.
Lacey:And boys I think are different. And he also was, even though he was five years older than us, he was still the closest in age. So I think those kinds of things all add up to it.
Emma:See, in my mind, Becky's the closest. Is she not? She's not, no. Nope. But she was always there taking care of us and letting us use her clothes and Yeah.
Lacey:Yeah. No. It's also funny though, Amy, who you would think is the softest of my, my, my siblings, was the meanest to me growing up. Really? Oh my gosh. Amy used to drag me up the stairs by my hair.
Emma:Yeah. Oh
Lacey:But that didn't happen as much when we moved to Tip. That happened mostly when we lived in Fort Thomas,
Emma:so when she was like 13,
Lacey:No, she would have, she was like in high school. She would, she knew better. And I was much younger. I know. But. then she came around and she fed me for years when I would go visit her and her kids for dinner. So it's just so weird to see how those,
Emma:Yeah. They shift. Yeah. Yeah. I don't feel like you or I shifted that dramatically. No. No, we're pretty much the same people, I think.
Lacey:I will say you are less weird than you used to be.
Emma:I used to be a compulsive liar also. I really think I had a large shift around 17, 18, where I, I drank a lot in high school. I haven't had a drink in three years. I smoked a lot in high school. I did smoke through 120, so that doesn't count. I cussed a lot. Do you remember how much I cussed? I
Lacey:did, but we were allowed to cuss at your house when we were 13.
Emma:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And that's where Lori was a rebel. She was the rebel parrot.
Lacey:I will say, thinking about it now, I'm like, uh, I don't know. But I also, I think I view cussing and cursing different, and like, if my kids say it, it's just don't say it in front of other
Emma:I
Lacey:It doesn't
Emma:matter. yeah.
Lacey:But I remember the 13 year old role, and I was like, yeah, I'm 13 now.
Emma:Do you remember how much of a liar I used to be?
Lacey:Yeah.
Emma:Oh, that, if there is one thing of my
Lacey:It was so from insecurity though. And it was always about the
Emma:things. Yes, I know, but it was like compulsive about dumb stuff. Yeah. That's what's so wild. I'm like, I look back and I'm like, you know how there's that one thing in your childhood that just nags at you? Like, why did I do that? It was that. And if I ever left anybody out, the idea of leaving anybody out, what is that, strength finders. Like one of my biggest things is making sure everybody feels involved. Yeah. Because the idea of ever leaving anybody out makes me crippled.
Lacey:It's so funny, because there are times where I was left out, but it was never your
Emma:No, but I allowed it to happen. Oh, wow. And that is just as bad. There were birthday parties, there were laser tag events, there were so many things that I allowed to happen, and I never stopped it. And I will never, I will work on forgiveness for that, but also, it hurts me just as much as it'll hurt you.
Lacey:But there, I would say there are certain people that things are specifically tied to events that happened and that were consistent.
Emma:But even in life, when you allow something to happen, you are still in charge of that. And so the fact that ever even allowed that to happen still. Yeah. I am sorry. I know. But, But I am. I don't have to be, but I really am.
Lacey:I know. It's
Emma:It's part of childhood, right?
Lacey:is. It's part of childhood. And it's so weird. I wouldn't say that I was ever bullied. truly bullied or anything like that. But I do think about certain friendships. And oh man. Thank God, you can move on with life and not have to see things anymore. Because, I, I don't hold ill will towards anybody or anything like that. It's just that's one of the beautiful things about growing up. I told this to my niece who's graduating high school this year, and I'm like, you get to choose who's in your life, and you don't have to put up with stuff anymore. And I just. I think about that sometimes, too.
Emma:But in the moment it feels like I remember being in eighth grade and in the moment those people in your life that are so toxic, it feels like you'll never be able to escape it. Yeah. And it feels so heavy all the time. Yeah. My fourth grader is having really bad issues. she's actually working through them right now, but I have her in counseling right now because of Friendships. Yeah. And I looked at her and I was like, girl, I get it. Let's go get you some help because you need to learn boundaries and barriers right now at a younger age so this doesn't haunt you the rest of, so thankfully, counseling.
Lacey:Heck yeah. You know I'm all pro therapy. I know. We
Emma:also go get Starbucks beforehand,
Lacey:I think it's really cool that you think about your experience and you think, no, I wanna give you the tools now so you don't have to feel this way later on.
Emma:And I do think that's the better aspect of our generation that we've learned. But I don't think our parents even had that availability. it wasn't around. So they couldn't have given us that.
Lacey:It's like with Isaac right now, he's having some issues, and we're working on getting him tools to be able to deal with them, and Joe's just like, I'm so glad he's not gonna have to figure this all out on his own when everything crumbles to the ground and he doesn't know what to do. And I'm just like, you're right. You're right. You're right. it's okay. He's doing that now. He's supposed to do that now. but I also think, Looking back now, those friendships that were not great and toxic, I don't know, I'm just I learned a lot from that. Looking back now, and the effort that it took to be mean to people is just something I've never understood.
Emma:don't either.
Lacey:And there are times where I think about something that I've said, and I'm like, Oh, I shouldn't have said that. But I never intentionally tried to hurt someone. I do think about things that I'm like, Oh, nope, that was mean. We put a girl's bra in a cooler. It wasn't even a freezer. It was a cooler. I think I had a lot of friendships that I felt like I had to be very performative in, but that our friendship was never like that for me. And so I think that's another reason why it's easy to continue being friends.
Emma:So I also think too like we can snap back and instantly just be ourselves again.
Lacey:I know. it was funny because I could tell the beginning you were like, there's a microphone and we're talking and I didn't want you to feel like you to put on a show. And then no,
Emma:It's the beginning. I don't like the beginning of anything. I know.
Lacey:I know. And I, yeah, but I agree. It's just, yeah, just who we are. And I think you, like I said, I think you have, One of the clearest pictures of who I am to my core as a person, and I just don't think that's something that fades.
Emma:Okay, so I do want to know what season of your life do you feel was the hardest or like looking back at your childhood you were like this season was just really difficult.
Lacey:our older years in high school, I made some decisions I'm not very proud of, I actually have a lot of lingering issues from that I'm now starting to work on and deal with. And, so that was a very isolating and hard time for
Emma:yeah.
Lacey:And even during that time, though, I remember, I don't know if it's because you just weren't in school very much. I just remember being like, but I have Emma over here. I don't, it was not, I don't know. I don't, I don't associate you with it at all. That was a very hard time for me. And I, but I also, not even thinking about that, but I think about just my relationship with myself. And that was a period of time where I started to just be really hard on myself.
Emma:that was going into senior year when you were class president.
Lacey:Yeah. because I spent a lot of, I spent a lot of time. being sad that I didn't have male attention, that boys didn't like me. I was always the bigger girl, like all of those things. And I spent a lot of time feeling alienated because of that. And, I wish I could tell that girl now, like girlfriend. You actually don't like them.
Emma:no, they're all really crappy people. So
Lacey:they're douchebags and some, and it was one of those things too where any scrap of attention I got was meant the world to me and was frankly meant way too much to me. and I just think about not that I think anybody took advantage of that or anything like, I just. I think about that girl, and I think about that time, and I just, I don't remember. When I say I don't remember that time,
Emma:You blocked it out?
Lacey:I truly don't remember a lot of that
Emma:I think our brains do that almost so we can heal from it without having to walk through it over and over and live in it.
Lacey:it. is, but what I've learned, because like I said, I've been going through therapy and like literally, I just, I'm doing trauma. based therapy with, actively working on this specificallY. I think I have placed a lot more value on that time because. My brain won't let me access it, and anytime, but the fact that I'm even having this conversation right now is a really big step for me. but that time specifically, anytime I would think about it or think about anything connected to it. my chest would lock up.
Emma:and
Lacey:a long time, I just was like, that's how you feel. That's how you feel. That's how you feel. And then I'm like, Oh no, I've learned that's called trauma.
Emma:Yeah, something else under
Lacey:There's that's called trauma. And that is affecting a lot of the decisions that I was making all the time until like my mid twenties. It's hard. That time I also think about, a lot of people would look at that time and say, oh my gosh, you were student body president, you were doing all
Emma:all the things. Yeah.
Lacey:But I couldn't even, I couldn't even tell you about anything.
Emma:It'll be interesting to loop back around and see maybe what is uncovered through your therapy.
Lacey:Yeah, my therapist, one of the things that we talked about, what success would look like for me is me being able to talk about it. So me even just talking about a bad thing happened that existed during this time, huge for me. Huge. and I still may cut this out. I dunno.
Emma:the learning experience you gained through it. allowed you to maybe have some walls up to be able to meet Joe. don't you just wish you could go sit knee to knee with that girl and be like, just wait. Wait till you meet your husband. I got something really good for you. You just,
Lacey:and it's really funny. I have, just was finishing editing my conversation with my cousin. And in it, I do say, it took me being with Joe for two years to realize that I, Don't care about a man's opinion of me like that it took me having it and having it in a positive way to realize how unimportant it was. And one I hate it because I'm like, damn it, Joe. But I just it took me so long to And I do. I just I think back and it was so important to me.
Emma:Yeah.
Lacey:It was so important to me. and there are so many places where I just made decisions where I was like, why would you do I know.
Emma:I hate to say this because I'm like, man, it's one of those moments where I'm like, look at you,
Lacey:I
Emma:look at you getting out of the box, look at you like working through it, look at you like just, I don't know, healing yourself and doing all the things that are going to make you a better person and more healed person in the end.
Lacey:I am doing it now for myself, not for someone else thinking I'm better, or, I don't know, anybody, it's only for me to truly be better, not I don't know how else to say
Emma:Not to prove that you're trying,
Lacey:Yeah. not to do it because I should do it, and not to do it because it's the right thing to say that I'm doing it, but to do it because it will actually make me feel better.
Emma:Right. How do you think Joe has maybe healed you through your marriage to prove as a father, as a husband, watching him even parent differently? Do you feel like that has been healing?
Lacey:I didn't know men like Joe existed. I didn't know that there were men that football wasn't, or sports or whatever wasn't their main priority in life. I didn't know. I didn't know, which is so funny because some people have commented that I do have a very masculine energy in some ways. And I'm just like, but I've always not I've always thought that was this one thing. And now I think I understand it a little bit more. But that was really the biggest thing that Joe taught me is oh. I don't actually like those men.
Emma:yeah.
Lacey:That's just what I thought everything was and that existed. And I actually think about a lot of the boys that we went to school with now in a very kind of like fond way of
Emma:yeah, they're fun and
Lacey:outgoing and fun and that kind of thing. And, Teenage boys are still my least favorite demographic in the world. I know that they're going to come comment on my podcast about it. But, I find them more scary than teenage girls. Middle school girls, though.
Emma:Ooh.
Lacey:Scary. But high school girls, I can deal with them. 'cause I know how insecure they are. Exactly.
Emma:You know what the root of them are.
Lacey:but teenage boys, it's just, it's so in, in proving a ma a certain
Emma:it's a whole testosterone surge. Yeah.
Lacey:and
Emma:I just. Everything about them is just.
Lacey:yeah. The fact that Joe existed still is something that I value, and that, Joe thinks I'm the most beautiful woman in the world. genuinely, he does. And, oh, I might cry. I've always known that I'm pretty, I'm really good at compartmentalizing and logicing out of, I have a pretty face, I have a nice smile, but I've always been bigger. I've always been the biggest friend. There was never, I was always the biggest girl in the group, and I think that had a bigger impact on me than probably any of you knew
Emma:Never. I never knew it. Because you carry yourself with such confidence.
Lacey:yeah, because even though we all know I'm the biggest one, we shouldn't talk about it because that'll point direct, attention to it.
Emma:but to me, that's, saying Lauren was always the tallest. And I feel like as we were kids, we didn't even think about that. You know what I mean? Like it never,
Lacey:you didn't think
Emma:yes. And that's the ignorance that I'm like, Oh, Oh, what you must have been feeling that I wasn't even aware of.
Lacey:Yeah. And no one ever made me feel, none of the girls ever made me feel less than or, one time called me fat, but no, she called me obese. I, this, I literally think about this all the time and I have to say this out loud. We were in class, and she was sitting with and they were like right in front of me, and we were being taught the word obese, and leaned over to and said, I know someone obese, Lacey. that, that has stuck with me.
Emma:is fat shaming in the 90s.
Lacey:I know. I was, I'm like, I'm right
Emma:That memory that you'll never forget.
Lacey:I know.
Emma:that's what I think is wild about humans is that we have those that make up our childhood. And that's one of those memories. Told me one time that I had more hair on my lip than he did, which I still have a very hairy lip. It's fine.
Lacey:I do.
Emma:and I remember the entire day I took scotch tape and I tried to rip the hair off my lip. It's like those memories that are burned into your soul
undefined:Mhm. Mhm.
Lacey:There were glimmers of boys maybe actually thinking I'm attractive.
Emma:Because you are. we all know Laci's beautiful.
Lacey:and like there were times where I would get close with a guy in a very platonic way. Yes. And something would happen that it would be like, oh, you don't want to be seen with me, even as my being your friend, because people could think you would like me. And that really stuck with me of that kind of stuff. But the girls never made me feel that way. Like my friends, I, no one ever said anything to me or anything like that, but it was just something that I assumed was known. because we can all see me. I'm not, it's not a secret. That's one of the things that it's yeah, I don't know. I think about it now. I'm like, why? I don't know. I remember, having to order a t shirt and, giving my size was the most anxiety ridden thing because I knew I would have to have a bigger size than everybody else. it's and it's so stupid. I don't know.
Emma:But even though it's stupid, it's still real. it's still feelings that you,
Lacey:and like I said, there were some boys who paid attention to me in private,
Emma:Mm hmm.
Lacey:but not in public, which I think just really fucked with me in a lot of ways of thinking that was more normal.
Emma:but I also, I love listening to your podcast, especially with the health and wellness people, when you are able to vocally proclaim yes, I have worked through this though. And I know that doesn't matter because it doesn't like. At the end of the day, who you are as a person is all that matters, and I think that's what your friends saw, is who you are, your brain, your heart, and how you show up for your life matters way more than what you look like on the outside. But also, I understand that was a huge part of our childhood that you had to battle, and that is hard.
Lacey:Yeah. It's Certainly not pleasant. I know.
Emma:especially as kids, we don't know,
Lacey:I think for me now, too, especially, I recently was diagnosed with diabetes and it, I've not said it anywhere because I have this, It's still that same of Oh, it's because I'm fat.
Emma:you had diabetes when you were pregnant. you are just prone to it. look at your genetics. that's what I was going to say. Look at your genetics. you are predestined genetically. there are so many things. That's like having long toes.
Lacey:Joe, the other day when I I told him, I was like, I'm just, it feels like I failed. And he was like, Oh my God. He's Lacey, he's you're great. Your maternal grandmother had it. Your dad has had
Emma:it. Yes.
Lacey:You have PCOS. You, you
Emma:you have all of it. You can't move and
Lacey:and do all the things that you're supposed to. And he was like, it's like expecting a little league team to beat the Yankees.
Emma:Exactly. Exactly. that's what I just want to be
Lacey:like, Yeah, I guess there's a possibility.
Emma:no, you are genetically predestined. that's it's like you getting PCOS and thinking it's your fault.
Lacey:I know. I'm.
Emma:that's not your fault. that's your genetics. Like,
Lacey:I, again, logically, I can know all these
Emma:things. Also, can you imagine the battle that you would have to go through the rest of your life to combat your, yes, maybe if you did XYZ and you were perfectly healthy and you didn't have a chronic illness and you weren't already, like, maybe, Maybe, maybe there's a 5 percent chance you didn't end up with it, but I know plenty of people that they do XYZ and they still have it, like,
Lacey:it's interesting cause I've started taking Menjaro, which is, and so I've lost five pounds But it's, I don't want to talk about that. I'm losing weight because I don't want it to be a thing.
Emma:Yeah.
Lacey:because I am probably going to be on it for the rest of my life, which means I probably will be at a smaller size soon.
Emma:Yeah.
Lacey:And I,
Emma:this, and this
Lacey:shit, just from then is still in my head of maybe boys will like me. Like literally. I had that thought and I'm like, there is a boy that likes me.
Emma:and he's, the greatest human
Lacey:he's great. I want to punch him in the
Emma:face so much even if you didn't love joe if you listen to your podcast Maybe you didn't know Joe. Me. I barely knew Joe and I listened to the podcast and I'm like, oh man, that man is incredible. He is a delight. He is funny. He cares. He shows up. He sits on a podcast. That is amazing. it truly,
Lacey:is such
Emma:such a
Lacey:he he really is. And I.
Emma:to know your kids get him as a dad. At the end of the day, how cool is that?
Lacey:Oh, my kids are amazing. Freaking
Emma:lucky.
Lacey:I am so proud of our approach to parenting and how we're, truly on the same page of wanting our children to be the best people that they can be without the pressure that I put on myself. Because I, again, I say this all the time, no one made me feel that like I
Emma:to be. No, you're the youngest child. you don't fit that scenario.
Lacey:So I'm not, I don't know who to blame for that, but it's certainly, it's not my mom's fault, or anything like
Emma:I would say society.
Lacey:I have always had anxiety and I've not known
Emma:it.
Lacey:and that I also have always had big emotions and my big emotions were not appreciated. by the world a lot of times. And I learned very quickly that you just push it down.
Emma:You dumb yourself down a little bit too. Yeah. Yeah.
Lacey:Push it down. You push it down. And then here's the problem. I'm really smart. And so you know what that does? That makes my anxiety really
Emma:smart.
Lacey:And so there are times in my life where I'm like, holy shit, I was so anxious and I didn't even know it. Yeah. Because it was so sneaky and it wouldn't let me see it. I don't know. It's. It's nefarious. I started to think, I posted this the other day, I started to think of my anxiety as a misinformed spy. Like she's really devious. She does some weird shit in the background that I don't understand, but she's using the wrong briefing.
Emma:Yes. Yes.
Lacey:So I can listen to her and just be like, Oh, honey. You
Emma:But to ignore her does more damage. Yes.
Lacey:And that's, I do think that's ultimately why I ended up with what I ended up chronic illness wise is I need to say this for myself and for everybody else. It is real. My illness is real. What happens to me is real. But I think the stress that my body had, because I had always, I've always essentially been like, my body is my enemy. I've never once not thought my body was my, wasn't my
Emma:enemy.
Lacey:and so, 30 years of stress of fighting yourself and, being smart about it. at a certain point, a soldier's gonna go down.
Emma:It's like a runner who is so mentally capable of pushing themselves that they get to almost the end of a race and their body snaps. Because no matter how mentally strong you are, your body is still in control. Yeah. yeah. And hormones are developed by your mind. They're developed by your gut. And when you don't take care of those, it shuts down your body.
Lacey:I am so thankful. Every day that I found Joe, and that Joe found me, and that I made Joe be my boyfriend, but I am thankful for what I learned about myself, probably the most with him, because he's always just let me be whatever I needed to be.
Emma:Now, relating to your chronic illness, I really want to know, do you ever have moments where you're thankful for it? Which sounds twisted because I know it's so debilitating and it has taken your life and it's taken so many aspects of who you are as a person, but also there's so many things that have come out of it. this podcast, like being at home, moving. finding a new place to raise your children, all of those things that came out of you having to literally lay down your life and start fresh. are you ever grateful for it? Yeah. And learning how to listen to your body.
Lacey:Yeah. that part of what I, the reason why I am better generally today is because I have learned how to listen to my body
Emma:and
Lacey:and rest and knowing oh, my body's not out to get me. My body is not my enemy. I also, like I said, I, it's almost like it's. It's doing the opposite of what that previous experience was for me, where it shut me and made me smaller, whereas my chronic illness somehow has allowed me to be bigger. And in a lot of different ways. And I'm, I am appreciative of that because I probably would have always just kept my head down and doing the thing that I thought I was supposed to be doing all the time and, didn't take a step back and think about, what do I actually want?
Emma:And you would have been too scared to.
Lacey:Yeah, I would have never done it on my own.
Emma:It was a forced halt.
Lacey:I think it all happened at the time it was supposed to happen. I, a couple weeks before I really was bad. I looked at Joe and I was like, what if I could do this like writing and podcasting thing full time? And he was like, let's take it one
Emma:step
Lacey:a time. And then a few weeks later, my body was like, you're done. So it did make it so that was something. that I could do. So I, yeah, I am thankful for that. I think it's made me a better mom in a lot of ways. It's made me a worse mom in other ways, but
Emma:it's made probably realize, actually matters. Does doing matter? No.
Lacey:Yes. My children have a level of empathy That, Iris was still in, we'll see, but Isaac, his empathy is off the charts and not in a people pleasing way in a place of genuine care. And I think that started when I was pregnant with Iris and I was constantly puking and peeing my pants all the time. And he would come to my back and pat my back while I was puking. but I think that has given, that has been a gift that, I am so proud of the little boy that he is because he really is so empathetic and genuinely wants to help and everyone to be good and happy and all that stuff. And again, not coming from a place of shame or coming from a place of that he should, but coming from a true place of love. And I just, that's really freaking
Emma:cool. Yeah. Wow.
Lacey:I certainly do have a lot of those things. I honestly try not to say some of those things because I still have the battle in my mind of, is this real? Am I making this all up? I know that's ridiculous,
Emma:but,
Lacey:but
Emma:regardless if it's ridiculous, you're still, it's a thought that goes through your mind
Lacey:all the time still. And but it's because remember, I never trusted my body. Anytime my body gave me messages before I listen. I told it was wrong and that I was dramatic. Now that I'm actually listening to my body and I get signals of I need to lay down, there's still that voice of like, but do you really?
Emma:yes, you
Lacey:Yeah, that, that's always there. And it's, again, it's smart and it's sneaky. Too smart and sneaky. I think chronic illness has taught me is that the world is not in black and white, and that two contradicting things can be very true. And that a lot of our beliefs about the world have deprogrammed us from what we are. we know is right.
Emma:Right.
Lacey:And it's so funny to say that because I've always had a very strong moral compass, very strong. hence why apparently nobody just even invited me to do bad things.
Emma:Nope.
Lacey:but you would think that internal voice of what's right and wrong would be able to apply to a lot of different things. Because they're not necessarily there are certain things that Joe's that's okay. And I'm like, no, it's not. It's not okay, because this isn't So you would think I wouldn't have internalized so many of those messages so
Emma:much,
Lacey:Subconsciously. Yeah. It's still definitely there. And that I've learned the more that I lean into just me and my instincts and what I know, the better I end up being. And that a lot of times, a lot of these things that I've made law in my head are completely made up. Completely made up. And not helpful.
Emma:No. If anything, they're sabotaging you. I
Lacey:I know. Because if there's anything with chronic illness, you get time to think.
Emma:See, there is a light side. There's a silver lining to everything.
Lacey:There is.
Emma:Well, did It help also that Becky had walked a similar road so you saw signs of, okay, I've seen this before.
Lacey:it was literally, it was Halloween night. My mom came over, my mom and dad came over to help the kids go trick or treating because I knew I wasn't going to be able to make it. And I was laying on the couch and mom looked at me and she was like, this is what Becky went through And and that was my moment of, oh, things are going to change. that, that was, that's the moment that I think about. So yes. It also has made me, I was so judgmental of Becky and I didn't even realize it. And of course I was, right? I was judging my, I'm judging myself, And there are just so many times that now that I think back, I'm like, man. I really wish I could have been better for her. I could have been there for her better or believed her better or been less about myself in a certain situation. Like I
Emma:But look at your age at that time. I know. We were at a very selfish age. Yeah. Where we were living our lives.
Lacey:I just, yeah. So I do think about that but it is also nice to be able to text someone and be like, Hey, did you have to take this medicine? Did it make you feel like a crazy person? did your heart race constantly? Oh, okay. I'm going to stop taking it then.
Emma:We're not going to go this route
Lacey:Yeah, we're going to learn from your mistakes. thanks for going through it first. it's actually the episode I recorded before this one was with Becky. And it's called Being the Chaos Friend.
Emma:What?
Lacey:And talking about being the person, because the one, because I saw this thing about, being, like having a chaos friend, and as soon as I read it, I was like, oh shit, I am the chaos
Emma:You are? I
Lacey:I am
Emma:now. Okay, I was about to
Lacey:I have not always been the chaos friend. No. I have shifted into the chaos friend. friend where I feel like any time I talk to someone, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I passed out last week, but it's okay. I will say Becky's like breaking bones left and right and shit. I'm not that, but it's when we moved and then my dog died and, oh, my grandma died earlier in the year and, oh, and then we all got sick and it's just
Emma:And then his appendix and then this daycare and then all of the
Lacey:things. Yeah. so that's what I, and because what it is that my threshold of being able to just handle it has lowered, right? I have a chronic illness. I can't just handle my dog dying and not, it not be a really big deal for me, or. my husband having appendicitis and having to get his appendix out. No, that upends my life because of my chronic illness. And so when I read it, I was like, oh shit, I'm the chaos friend. And I, And then I had this moment where I was like, who's my OG chaos friend? It's my
Emma:big sister. She started that.
Lacey:I have not always been the chaos friend. And she and I actually talked about this, how a lot of her stuff is outward facing. messages about her and how that affected her, whereas mine's very inward facing of, like, push it down, push it down, push it down. and so it's just interesting how those two things, even though they affected us from different directions, had a big impact.
Emma:I think that's the interesting part about friendship, though, is I think at different phases of life, everybody will be the chaos friend.
Lacey:five years ago, would you have ever thought I would be the
Emma:would be your best
Lacey:no, No. Never. No. I
Emma:think we've both had times in our life, though, remember when you broke your arm?
Lacey:I do. I broke my arm several
Emma:times. Yep. and then you got hit by a car. I did. Yeah. I don't know, like I feel like that big chunk of my life when I was going through the divorce and moving out on my own and trying to literally keep my head afloat, that was my chaos time where anytime I talked to anybody, it was just like, Oh, how you doing? And it's after a while it's I don't like, can it not be about me right now? Like I want to talk about something else. Yeah. Yeah.
Lacey:I don't want to have to recount All of it.
Emma:Yes. It's like retelling the same
Lacey:that's why I literally, I think at one point on Facebook, I posted don't ask me how I am. If you want to know, listen to the I don't want to talk about it
Emma:anymore. I know. and it's exhausting. It's
Lacey:exhausting. And yeah, I don't know. I will. I do think it's funny. Cause I do think growing up, If someone was more of the chaos friend, it would have been you.
Emma:Absolutely. Absolutely.
Lacey:I have always been pretty
Emma:You are very steady. But it's funny because opposites attract. So my husband is the most steady person on the planet. And the reason I'm attracted to him is because he is so steady.
Lacey:Joe's very steady
Emma:too. That consistent. Who knew that football players are not sexy? Consistent engineers is where it's at.
Lacey:actually feeling safe with someone and knowing what's going to happen with them? did you know that's possible?
Emma:Yeah. Did you know? I don't need you to bring me home flowers. I need that you are going to unload the dishwasher every time
Lacey:I can have feelings and you aren't going to be mad at me for having feelings? Oh my gosh. Now, are you overwhelmed by them? Yes. Of course. But we can work that out.
Emma:Passion with passion doesn't really work. One passionate Yeah.
Lacey:and it could work, but you both have to be able to flex. And I think that's, yeah. Yeah. I don't
Emma:know. It's a whole different ballgame.
Lacey:It really is. It really is. I should actually try to wrap this up. Thanks for joining me today, Emma.
Emma:Oh, this was truly one of the best days I've had in a long time. Thank
Lacey:you. I'm glad I'm glad that we just got to chat.
Emma:I know. It was so fun recounting my childhood,
Lacey:honestly. I know, I didn't realize how much I needed
Emma:that. I know. So many good
Lacey:Yeah, because I've been really focused on the not great parts lately. And so to be like, yeah, no, things are really lovely in so many ways.
Emma:And how can I make sure my kids have this much
Lacey:fun? Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. and then also, thanks for being my lifelong friend.
Emma:It's my joy.
Lacey:Yeah. All right. Thanks, Emma.