Inviting and Receiving in The Middle with Kim O’Hara

Welcome to sharing the middle of where recovering perfectionist,

overachievers and anyone in the middle of a struggle come together

to learn to embrace the messy middle.

Of life.

I'm Lacy, your friend in the middle and guide whose claim to

fame this week is just making it through the holiday weekend.

We went and did several family things and outside all those things.

And it, it happened and my kids were happy.

So I'm pretty happy with that.

Today on our.

episode of sharing in the middle, we have Kim O'Hara, who is

someone I was so excited to have on and you'll hear why she is.

Integral to the story of the middle and how it started.

Kim is an Oh, And foot coach has guided over 40 clients through the

daunting journey of writing a book and publishing her self-help book no

longer denying sexual abuse, making the choices that can change your life

And she hosts a bi-monthly three teaching series.

On line no longer abused.

She has contributed to the LA times, as well as prestigious literary journals

as an essayist, she has a podcast.

You should write a book about that and writes a weekly sub stack

column called the inner circle.

Little housekeeping.

This is, an episode that talks about sexual abuse.

If that is something that will be a trigger for you also, it's

just this episode this week.

Cause.

Mental health friends.

, the next week, we'll have a mini episode.

I love this conversation with Kim, so I really hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Hello, Kim.

Hello.

It's so good to be here.

I

am so excited for you to be here.

And I know you've heard me say this, but I really, I don't think you realized how

big a moment our first meeting was for me.

Like I, when I talk about the middle, I, when I think about the moment you and I

met and you basically said to me, oh no, people want to hear what you have to say.

you have a voice.

You are interesting that I'm getting goosebumps.

That was a turning point in my life.

Oh my God, you're gonna make me cry.

I know.

I thought of those things where I'm like, I hope this isn't too much,

but it really, I might cry too.

I cannot thank you enough for just giving that validation.

I was actually in a very different place in my life and I just was

like, I think books are cool.

I've always wanted to write a book.

And you're like, you should.

then as we talked, you really did a great job of just validating that I

had something to say and the fact that someone who I saw as an expert in someone

who was knowledgeable, thought that of me, put me on this trajectory of where I

am now, of feeling comfortable writing, feeling comfortable sharing, and I.

Truly cannot thank you enough for that because I, like I said, I don't

think you realize, but when I think about my timeline and my story, our

conversation is a turning point for me and I just cannot thank you enough.

Oh my God.

I am so going to use what you just said as a testimonial, by

the way, because Absolutely.

I just met with a woman yesterday who wants me to start doing more

events for women of just that ilk.

Yeah.

Not necessarily let's write your book tomorrow, but more just like you've got

something to say and you are valuable and you have a right, and so many women

are like, I do like you're so not alone.

Absolutely.

And I think part of it's like I live in Cincinnati, I'm in the Midwest.

I've lived what I think I would consider a small life.

and so to hear someone saying, no, it is a big life.

It is something people want to hear.

Yeah.

it blew my mind and it really put me on a path that I am.

Excited and proud of.

So I just, oh, I wanted to start, and thank you for that

because, I don't, thank you.

I don't think, like I, when I talk about the middle, I talk about, I

had a conversation with someone who made me feel like what I had to say

mattered, and that was you and I just,

Oh, thank you so much.

Thank you.

You've made my day.

Good.

You've made my week.

you've made a difference for me, so I'm glad that has

made a little impact for you.

It's a love fest.

It is mutual love fest.

I really appreciate it.

We usually start with, someone talking about their relationship with the middle.

But I would love for you just to give your own little quick introduction

in your own words about who you are.

and you and I met via, Hey mama.

you were one of the first people mama to say, Hey, let's just chat.

And we did, we chatted and we had a really lovely time.

Obviously it was life changing for me, but why don't you tell

us a little bit more about you.

Sure.

I've changed the narrative of how I talk about myself recently.

and I used to come out with right away and tell you I was a book coach in

Los Angeles, and the narrative that's shifting now is I start with, I'm a

writer and I've always been a writer, and that is the essence of who I am.

And the way that I coach people through their books and through

their writing is from that lens of.

I am a writer and I'm also a coach, I know how writers think.

I know how writers tick.

I know where they get stopped up.

I know where they don't believe their story is valid.

I help them through the hills and valleys of getting through that really

tough journey of writing a book.

I'm a columnist.

I'm an essayist.

I'm a former movie producer and screenwriter, and I'm a mom.

And, I'm just waking up every day doing what I do here in Los Angeles.

So that's kind of me in a nutshell.

I find when people first hear me talking about the middle or hear about

the concept, they have this visceral, oh, I know what this means for me.

What was that for you?

Yeah, when you asked me that, like I understand the inclination for

a lot of people is to maybe go dark, oh God, where I didn't know the darken

night of the soul coming out of the storm and I have lived my whole life.

Until, just a couple years ago in such a black and white thinking in such a, it's

either a high or it's a low and I have, strove to not be in that place anymore.

I would like to be in the middle.

So when you asked that, I chuckled.

Cause I was like, oh, that is the happiest place for me if I'm in the middle.

There is peace on the land.

In my home, there is peace on the land.

In my career, there is peace on the land, in my finances.

It's all good.

That old notion that as artists, as writers, if we're not like jacked up

all the time, we're not doing things.

And I realize that's a myth, that's a total myth.

I had a book signing for my book, no longer denying sexual abuse, making

the choices that can change your life.

And, in the past I would've been all like, oh my God, like I'm gonna expose

myself as an abuse survivor and this book and the shame and all that.

And I knew I had to do a book signing and I was like, starting to

get into that mindset of, is women we're like, I have to make it work.

Like jam it in, make it happen.

find the venue, get the guest list and instead I just decided

to breathe in, pray about it.

Stay in the middle.

And just see what was available for me to receive.

I'm starting to learn how to receive what's given to me

instead of going for everything.

And literally, I was sitting with my friend Maita, at a bookstore in Culver

City, beautiful bookstore lamenting about this, where am I gonna do my book signing?

Where am I?

She goes, what about here?

And I was like, oh my God.

That was like an amazing, but then immediately, I thought was like, oh,

they'll never, yeah, Like I'm not good.

She goes, just talk to the owner.

And I'm like, you know that I could do like I'm a good

like Chatter found the owner.

She was like, sounds great to me.

When can we put you on the calendar?

I was like, no.

Like this is impossible.

And then I was like, okay.

then immediately everything's too good now.

Uhhuh okay, what's the next hurdle?

And there was never.

Ever a hurdle.

Even when the bookstore lost the books, oh my gosh.

That were sent for the book signing.

I still didn't freak out.

They were found in a pile two days later.

By the way, Uhhuh, we ended up just bringing the books that I had on

stock and like we made it work.

But it's like every musician that performed.

Every person that came on the guest list, every hug even down to I

found the perfect outfit at Macy's.

Like perfect hair, perfect everything.

And I never stressed not once.

And that was definitely a first time for me.

that's what I strive for.

that goes with this is embracing, I am trying to learn how to embrace the middle.

And that's what it sounds like you achieved there.

So I am so curious how did you.

Learn to not, I don't know if it's learned to not care or learned to receive.

I really liked that phrase of I'm receiving.

I know that's a big question, by the way, of how did you get there?

But I wanna know, cuz that's what I'm trying to do.

It's really important for me to go out with this topic of

sexual abuse and a sexual assault.

To create a platform and a space of service for others to speak.

It is not about me.

It is not about my book.

It is not about how great I am, right?

My job is to show up and look good, create a good space for people to

share, and I knew I wanted this book signing to be a curated.

Event of joy and because I wanted that I was vibrationally in that space.

And then everything that came to me, like I would get an idea, oh, I want

my friend Sonya, who's this beautiful slam poet, to come and do like one

of her songs, acapella, called her.

Will You, are you willing?

Oh my God, I would love to.

She was, Brilliant.

another friend of mine, Sue Ampy, who's wrote the Forward, she's an

amazing actress here in Hollywood.

Her wife is this gorgeous musician.

I said, will she come sing a song?

Everybody?

I just called and it wasn't like this scheduled planned event list.

I had a little thing on my computer.

It was literally like, I'd be driving in my car and I'd be like,

oh my God, I didn't invite Amy.

Oh my God.

Michelle would, maybe this person knows a great videographer, and I

just kept having the conversations.

Taking the things off the list, trusting things would show up and

just knowing like I didn't wanna be a stress case When I got there.

might give a lot of credit to these two women from my church, who showed up.

This one particular woman, Michelle Long.

And really was like my right hand cuz I'll get tripped up on like,

where do we order the wraps?

You know what I mean?

picking up the wraps from Ralphs is suddenly like, it's not, what are

you gonna talk about for 45 minutes?

It's who's gonna get the wraps at Ralphs?

Uhhuh.

And she like cobbed me down.

She's we go online, we order the wraps.

that's the kind of stuff that'll trip me up.

Interesting.

So there are two, I have two things that I wanna pull out.

The first one is, it's so interesting that you talked about receiving, but I heard

several times where you invited people in.

And so I think that's an interesting kind of push and pull of inviting people in and

allowing yourself to receive from them.

yes,

yes.

And that's really beautiful, and I think it's beautiful because we as

women tend to have a hard time accepting help and asking for that help, right?

So allowing people to come in and be a part of.

There's inviting people for you to receive.

I know that sounds silly, but that those words seem to make Yes.

Are important.

Yes.

Yes, it's true.

It's like, come into my world, I have a hunch that this is gonna go down.

And I'm gonna benefit and you are gonna benefit and other

people are gonna benefit.

So if you wanna go on the ride with me, come.

But if you don't, I totally understand, because it might not be your time,

it might not be our time for whatever reason, without any, resentment at all.

Mm-hmm.

I feel like when you come from that place of an invitation is so sincere.

it's not premeditated.

It's been a download of I feel this is supposed to happen.

it comes from an amazing, amazing place.

I've had this idea for a long time for a gathering of women.

it similar to how we started the podcast without that permission space.

Yeah.

But it's still, when I think about it, even though it's viscerally

lovely, I even have the name for it.

It can get very listy very quickly.

It can get very ego driven very quickly.

And so I have to put it away cuz that is not the way I wanna do it.

Tell me more about that.

Does that make sense?

It does, but I wanna go in deeper cuz I'm just, I'm nosy.

When you say listy, is it like who's on and off the list and ego being yours?

Yeah, go about

who's gonna, yeah.

Who's.

How much it's gonna cost.

what's the venue like, all the details that are very like, salesy

and how, what's the profit margin and you know who's gonna speak and why?

And it's interesting because when I think about bringing women together to curate

something That they would leave going.

Oh my God.

like the book signing people left that and they were like,

this was an amazing event, right?

Yeah.

And I was like, yeah, it really was.

And that sort of told me like, okay, I can do more.

I'm onto something.

Like I can do more of these.

I'm curating an event next week at my daughter's high school.

they came to me, they said, we'd love you to speak on

sexual assault and sexual abuse.

my immediate idea was, I'm not taking the stage for 45 minutes.

Yeah.

Nobody wants to listen to me for 45 minutes.

I'm curating this thing and now I have coming a couple like major players in

bringing down some predators publicly in Los Angeles coming to the stage with me.

Wow.

Again, how powerful, from just.

The space of wanting to invite them in and then receive what they have to give.

It's really, I love that we've, I need to write this on a post-it, invite someone in

and then receive what they have to give,

there's something so beautiful there and I think you hit the nail

on the head for me of something I've really struggled with in this

moving into an entrepreneurial.

Space and wanting to make money to support my family, but not

wanting to feel like a salesperson.

And then I am, there's like a certain sleaziness or whatnot with that.

this idea of I'm not necessarily selling, I'm inviting people in to receive

my message really feels different.

And so I I just hearing you talk about it, I was like, yes.

I totally see where you're coming from, and I see.

The difference in the pushing and the lists and the and what it is,

and this is something I've been learning a lot lately, is it's

about the process, not the outcome.

And that the outcome will come

Yes.

Yes.

With that process.

Yes.

yes.

there's always, to go back to what you just said, I've been through

many iterations with my career.

I've had a sales mentor, I've had business coaches.

Reframing it with, what I have to offer you is, you know, from a

place of service and still, it still has an edge of I want your money.

Yeah.

And I've learned, which is noble by the way.

Which is noble.

And there's nothing

wrong with sales and are, or there's nothing.

No, absolutely not.

There's

nothing wrong with that.

But there is a difference.

And I feel like, Knowing when and where to make that application.

there are clients who hire me and I'm gonna help them write a book.

And that it is a business transaction.

I will be paid.

Yeah.

And then there's other situations where money is not the f it's not.

It's like you said, it's like we're not quite sure what the

outcome a hundred percent is.

There might be some money transactions, but it's not contracted

like big year program thing.

really knowing who you're serving and why you're serving them.

I think really just some people are gonna pay you and they're gonna support

your life and other things are gonna be more like really service-based

and to tie it back to the middle,

It makes it gray area and it makes it hard.

Yeah.

And so I do, I see.

Even though I feel like we've gone down a completely different path

than I thought, but I love it.

I wanna reframe though something for you.

Yes.

Absolutely.

I want you to get rid of that word.

It's hard.

It's hard.

Nothing's hard.

It just, we just make it hard.

Okay.

it's never hard.

it's emotional.

It's challenging, it's enlightening.

It's illuminating.

But as women we're like that, we fall down that hole of oh my God, it's so hard.

And I try to stay away from that word.

I try to stay away from that word hard, and I always catch myself

when I say I've gotta go to work.

Interesting.

Okay.

Yeah.

My words, my you is not work.

Yeah.

My words are lazy and should, those are the two words that I really

don't call yourself lazy.

Yeah.

And, because you have children, they can't hear that

that is something that I've really consciously been working

on is removing lazy and then noticing when I say should and why.

I am saying should, because about 90% of the times my shoulds are made up.

and that's not true.

I don't, they're just you.

They're just me, or they're just a internalization of one message that

I've turned into a rule that isn't a rule, I really love hearing yours,

your phrases of That's hard and I'm gonna go to work cuz I, as soon as you

said them, I'm like, yeah, I get it.

I get why those things can be barriers and start these like

more negative thought patterns.

They do.

two things that you said that I am really interested in.

How.

They butt up to each other.

And this gets a little personal and that's okay.

Obviously share what you like.

So you were talking about your event and your event being a place of joy

and the juxtaposition of it being about sexual abuse and sexual assault.

And there being all this shame with it.

Mm-hmm.

And so I'm really curious in how you cultivated an event

of joy around a topic with so

much shame.

Yeah, that's a great question.

I realized when I was at the bookstore, midway through the event and actually

said this to someone that was there, is I had picked a space with all windows.

Yeah.

And.

It hit me how I was like, look at us.

Cuz there were a lot of people there who had been abused.

And I was like, look at us.

We are not hiding anymore.

We are beautiful.

We are amazing.

What is in our story does not.

Make us.

Right.

It's just a part of who we are.

And the music was very celebratory and just the, you know, writing.

I didn't speak for that long.

I only spoke for 10 or 15 minutes.

And I invited people up to the stage.

And in that invitation up to the stage, they were able to tell their stories and a

few of them had not ever spoken publicly.

Wow.

That's joyous.

That's joyous.

That they're getting a chance in this safe cocoon of space with me

sitting there holding space for them, all these people staring at

them adoringly to be able to say.

I was abused.

This is my story.

This is how I feel.

A couple people got up and it was like one person got up and was like, I didn't

even really, it didn't even really hit me till right now because I shared a

story about how a year before I woke up from the dream that I had been abused.

I was in a relationship with someone who had date raped me.

And I had minimized it and stuffed it.

I was like, oh no, that didn't actually happen.

It was in the middle, by the way.

It was a gray area.

Yeah, because it happened so fast and I didn't really say no, you

know, it was like a real weird area.

But now 11 years later I'm able to go, oh yeah, I was definitely, yeah.

I was able to admit that publicly as well.

That's joyous to me.

When people get to gather in this community and shed their shame

and celebrate that we're getting free, we're getting set free.

I also think it's really beautiful that it's about the.

The Vic, I don't wanna say victims, but the people, right.

Not the, those who did the harm.

And so I think that's another piece of it as you were talking, I loved that.

I didn't hear about that once, and I know I'm bringing it up now, but I

think that's also a really important, designation of, usually when we talk about

these things in public, it's very much.

Like tensions and opposing forces and this person and this

person and that kind of stuff.

And in that environment it was not at all, it was just about

them, their experience and

being seen.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

We're we, it wasn't, it definitely wasn't like a witch hunt.

Yeah.

It definitely wasn't like, who are we gonna put the blame on?

I think that there was a lot of power in that room.

Yeah.

I think a lot of people, there was a lot of understanding that.

the people that had done the harm, they were broken and they were acting under

some kind of paradigm that had either been put on them or, who's to know.

that's not my job.

to heal them.

My job is to, heal me so I could heal others because unfortunately

at the rate in which sexual abuse and sexual assault particularly

is happening in this country, I.

The best we can do is to hold space for those.

That's happened to cuz it, it's not stopping anytime soon.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I like the distinction that it's not my job to heal

them, it's my job to heal myself and Almost in service of them.

And yes.

Absolutely.

yes,

yes.

We're gonna switch gears a little bit just because Okay.

I wanna ask you about this.

So I read your LA Times piece about your love letters and I think regularly about

how you wrote, how you had someone I.

Come find you in a grocery store after you wrote them a love letter.

And I don't really have a question here, I'll be honest.

It's just, I need you to know that this has been something that

has been imprinted in my mind.

And, I actually had my own experience.

It wasn't a love letter, but I had a thank I, I wrote someone a thank

you note and it was this, she's my, I guess she's my great-aunt,

right?

Okay, great aunt.

And I'm, I wrote her a thank you note for one of my wedding gifts,

and apparently she kept it on her table for a long time saying it was

the best note that she's ever given.

And I was at my grandmother's funeral a few weeks ago and

she came she sought me out.

And she's I just need you to know that's still the best

thank you note I've ever gotten.

Which coming from.

Someone of her age, like that's a huge compliment.

And I thought of you and I thought of like this messy Kim feels with these

people, talking about her love letters.

So I just, I don't Do you have any thoughts on that?

I don't wanna speak

for you.

no.

It's interesting cuz I, I wrote that piece originally for Modern Love in the New York

Times and I did not get it in and I was like, Really a little bit disappointed

cause I had done a lot of work on it.

we don't just roll these things out.

Yeah.

They take a lot of time and a lot of editing and a lot of contemplation.

Especially to fit into a small space, you have to really pick

every sentence and every word.

And my same friend, I love this friend for this too, is that the

same person who suggested I do the book signing, said to me, why don't

you just resubmit it to LA Times.

They have a similar column and I was like, I had no idea.

I was like, they do.

So I looked up and I kid you not, when you're in the flow of intention and you

take action, miracles happen Two weeks.

Two weeks.

I got an email.

We love this.

We wanna publish it in a week.

That's, I didn't even have time to get worried.

It's time to like stress.

too much time, you start to think.

Oh, do I really want people to really read this about me?

Yes.

this is really bad.

Like these, this is a, this is my love life.

This is my love life, And I

was, wow.

It could be what people thought.

It's my love life of failures.

You know what I mean?

And that's another kind of piece of it as, yeah, feeling, uh, really vulnerable.

Absolutely, really vulnerable.

But I think what drove me to finally be okay with the peace coming out is

that, Anybody would be lying if they said that they hadn't had their own

sort of journey to find the one, right?

Mm-hmm.

And at the very end of that piece, it was important for me to stress

that I had a pattern that I was, propagating through my life and that

I needed to be the one to stop that pattern, put a pause on all that.

Like proving love to me, proving love to them, and wait and know in my heart.

That once I stopped that pattern, that next person that comes along

that I would write that letter to, it would be very different.

Yeah.

And I haven't written one yet.

I usually like to end our conversations with a piece of

advice, whether that's something that you've lived by, or something

advice you would give yourself.

what advice would you like to share?

Yeah, I would like to circle back to, the beautiful sentiment you shared with

me in the beginning of this show where, we don't need permission to have a voice.

We don't need permission to write, but a lot of times we need that from somebody.

Yeah.

So if you've been set free by another, I would say look for another

person, a woman that you can give that nod to and say, Hey, I see you.

I hear you.

You have a story, your life has value.

You are valuable, and just help set them free.

I love that.

real quick, what would you like to plug or share?

I've got all the links.

So that'll put in the show notes, but anything that

you'd like to plug right away?

I am building followers for my column Called Inner Circle, which is

a dumpster fire of human fragility.

And I write it three times a week.

Yeah.

and I would love more people to join it.

So it's kim O'Hara .substack.

Dot.com.

yesterday's column was about shearing sheep.

I know it was, I read it and I just was giggling and I loved the moment

that you're like, I could have pushed through and done something else, but we're

gonna talk about shearing sheep today.

And I was like, in, what are we talking about?

Exactly?

So if you're so to anyone listening, if you're looking three times a

week for a very short read, it takes maybe five minutes, Kim O'Hara

dot com's, my website, if anyone's looking to write a book, please reach

out for us to have a conversation.

thank you so much, Kim.

I'm so glad that you joined me today.

I, I've been wanting to have you on for a while,

it's been amazing.

Thank you so much for having me on.