Lacey: 00:00:05

Welcome to No Shame in the Home Game, the podcast that cares how your home feels, not looks. I am Lacey, your host who hates paper with a passion. I try to get rid of as much paper as possible in my household. We're talking about paper management today. with, my co host who I know is pro paper in some ways, Sara.

Sara: 00:00:24

Hi, Lacey, that was such a funny, continuation of our yin and yang, like you hate paper. I love paper. It's true. I do love paper. I will not walk by a paper store. I love to go in. So much about paper that I love. I'm all about paper books.

Lacey: 00:00:41

love the idea of paper. Let me just say. I love the idea of a paper book. I love the idea of stationery. Don't like the reality of it, which is what we're talking about today, of the management of it. It's just too much stuff.

Sara: 00:00:55

Yes. And here is where the audience is going to be in for a surprise twist. I feel like I have to confess this. For as much as I love home management, paper management is my Achilles heel. and I felt I could hide that fact and act like I'm an expert in everything, but the whole point of no shame in the home game is there is no shame in the home game. So what I did was I walked myself through the steps, which is what we'll talk about here. And I am working on identifying what my hiccup is. So I'm going to go ahead and do a call out. If anyone out there is a paper management maven, I beg of you to reach out to us. We will do a part two to this episode and we will hear all of your tips and tricks. Cause I would love that. what I discovered and what I know about myself is I love Bigger movements like doing the laundry. I don't care about carrying it downstairs moving it over I don't care about cleaning. I like it You get to see the before and after I don't mind doing things that take a lot of physical input Paper management to me is so much more mental we've talked about it before, how I get mentally fatigued before I get physically fatigued. let's get clear first on what paper management is. So first and foremost, mail.

Lacey: 00:02:18

I'm sorry. That was me like being angry at mail.

Sara: 00:02:21

I was like, wait, does Lacey not get mail? Is that how much she dislikes paper?

Lacey: 00:02:24

No, I get mail and I hate it.

Sara: 00:02:27

So mail is the biggest one. And then after that. It's like everything you bring home. So I don't know why they still like all the receipts. Like you go to a doctor's office and they print you off like a fricking book of stuff, which why do I have an online portal? If you're going to hand me 10 pages of paper.

Lacey: 00:02:47

That's what I've started doing, is I use MyChart, I'm good, thank you.

Sara: 00:02:51

They print it out before I even sit down, but I will start yelling no across the room. and then like receipts from the gas station, the grocery store, they print out those little paper coupons, right? And then there's the paper that you receive from, if you have kids. that's its own situation of paper. Reminder notes, field trip notes, art, like pieces of paper, like tests or artwork or crafts, that's its own thing. I do much better with that actually. So that's all the paper. Am I missing anything with paper?

Lacey: 00:03:24

there's like the important papers, like social security, birth certificates, those kinds of things. They don't always come through the mail, but they're like the papers that you need to hold on to. Like for example, Joe and I are going on a trip in October. And the amount of times I've had to put in a passport number, but you don't just need the passport number. You need the expiration date too. Those kinds of like papers that you have to keep. Important papers.

Sara: 00:03:53

Yes. And that's so interesting. I kind of skipped over that one. All my important papers go in a firebox, so I always know where they are

Lacey: 00:04:02

I like to think I know where they are, but then literally we just had to reorder a passport for Joe because we could not find his passport. I thought I had a system, I thought I knew where everything was, and then I went into the system and guess what's not there? Joe's passport. other people can influence things. We'll just say that.

Sara: 00:04:22

My neighbor. Oh my goodness. It's so great. We're like the pressure release valves for one another when something happens She was getting everyone ready for this gigantic family trip. And by gigantic, so many family members were going on this cruise and they were going to stop at other countries. So they had to have their passports, but they didn't have to have their passports to get the tickets. So it was very much a this is what we need to pack before we go. and there, Place where they keep documents is maintained by her husband. It's like some big wall safe, So she hands those over to her husband who puts them in the wall safe. So it comes time to get ready for the trip. And she asks her husband to go get them. And he goes, okay, can you tell me where they are? And she's I gave them to you to put in the safe. And it's 48 hours before they're supposed to leave on their trip and there's this frantic scrambling of, no, I did my job and I told you to put it in the safe. You didn't do your job and put it in the safe. And now you're handing the buck back to me and asking me to find them. They ended up finding like four of the five of them and then there was one and it was just like Maybe one person just doesn't get to go. They ended up finding It wasn't where it was supposed to be but it was 48 hours of stress before a trip And that goes back to the basic premise of like home management is to make your life easier So that you can enjoy life So when you're getting ready for a trip, you want to be in that pre trip bliss. You just want to be like thinking about your trip. You don't want to be 48 hours scrambling.

Lacey: 00:06:03

I have a filing cabinet that I'm this is where things go. I have a file for each of us and you think it would have been in there.

Sara: 00:06:12

I'm going to laugh really hard when you do a fall. This is like the coffee maker. Like one day you're going to find

Lacey: 00:06:17

Oh, we absolutely are. That is, that has been our MO in this, in our move of we can't find something, And then when we least expect it, it just pops up out of nowhere. I just know it's going to pop up.

Sara: 00:06:30

I can't wait for you to open my box of crackers and Jill's gonna be like, Oh, yeah, I put it in there because nobody would think to look in a box of crackers for my passport

Lacey: 00:06:38

Honestly, my favorite part is us both like trying to Sherlock Holmes in our head. Like the last time we saw it, cause I am a feeler, right? So I remember like a feeling associated with it. And I was like, I remember the last time you had it. It was a time where it was like overkill for you to bring it and I was annoyed that you brought it. And now we can't find it. So as far as I'm concerned, this is 1000 percent your fault. And so then I was like, okay, when would I have felt annoyed by that?

Sara: 00:07:08

All right access the annoyed catalog let's go back Marriage is so funny marriage is not what you expect it to be. But anyways Okay, so important documents is its own category. Yes very much agree with that.

Lacey: 00:07:21

I do want to point out though, is that important documents sounds like it should be easy, but it's that reset, it's the putting it back, that's the hard part of using it, getting it out, using it, and then putting it back. The putting it back, that's where it gets messy.

Sara: 00:07:39

I am just over the moon excited that you use the term reset because that's one of my favorite words and you're absolutely right. So anyone and this is where it's I wish I could get people like starting off like right in the beginning of starting a household with other people. It's okay people. It's not just about getting the passport. From the government. It's about keeping track of it and Resetting it back to your important document place. So the next time you go on a trip, you don't have to Sherlock Holmes it

Lacey: 00:08:09

I think that's an interesting way of just thinking about, we should probably do a travel episode now that I'm saying it. Because unpacking and packing, it's a whole thing.

Sara: 00:08:18

It is a whole thing and if you read the last newsletter, you know that I just got back from camping Coming home is it's own Is its own beast you're trying to recreate life

Lacey: 00:08:31

In a harder place. No thanks.

Sara: 00:08:40

i'm so glad this I I don't know why I thought it would be dry. It's not it's us. It's not dry so Going back So for me I said it's not my strong suit So I was like, okay, let's identify what works well and what doesn't. That's the first step in this process. And I thought there's in my mind, there's three categories of paper coming in the house So I'm not talking about important documents. Well, that might be part of the process pile, but okay. I have recycle, which means straight into recycling. I don't need to do anything with it. so much of my mail, straight into recycling. And I have it very easily accessible, so that's okay. And then I have shred, which, that's up in my office, which is not the greatest flow plan. But it's just where it is. So shred recycling. So that takes up, that's two of the three steps. And then I'm left with processing. And again, I've said it before, and maybe I need to change my tune. Processing is boring. That's why that's the step that doesn't get done.

Lacey: 00:09:45

as you were talking, I have a question

Sara: 00:09:46

Yeah.

Lacey: 00:09:47

Are you able to process everything? Let's, for example, anywhere that I can say paperless, do not send me stuff paperless. Old Broseph does not necessarily do that. And so we'll get some things in the mail that I'm like, I don't know what to do with this because I have this paperless and you have to take care of this because this is your thing. And I refuse to take it on. Which if I did take it on, it probably would be less of a problem, but I'm refusing to out of principle. And so what ends up happening is I process my stuff quickly because I know what I do and what I don't need, but I then end up with this pile of things to be processed that he needs to process. And then it just never happens Eventually, I just get mad and throw things away.

Sara: 00:10:40

that's a whole other aspect to this, which is, I'm coming at it from that, mentality of being the home's CEO, where paper management. It's actually all under my purview. I'm actually not delegating that because I do have this magical ability to like,

Lacey: 00:11:00

Yeah.

Sara: 00:11:00

And so if I'm parsing that out with my spouse, the amount of energy it takes for me to then tag him into the process and tag out, over the years, I realized when there's two situations of pain, I can identify as which is more painful, me taking over his paper management or me constantly tagging him in and out of paper management. And so for me, I was able to identify it is more painful tagging him in and out. I am going to surrender to the fact that I am better at this and that I don't want to keep playing this game.

Lacey: 00:11:37

Yeah, I think that's fair. I think part of the problem that I have is that I think I process things differently than him. And so then I'm constantly second guessing myself of do we need this? Would he want to see, that's a whole different conversation.

Sara: 00:11:53

I was going to say this is like a whole different episode of joint paper management. So I think part of what worked for me is that my spouse was also very much willing to surrender that to me as well. So there was no resistance on either side. And what I'm hearing you say is there are actually two different desires, outcomes, processes. Like you guys are actually just in two different camps on everything.

Lacey: 00:12:18

it's unpredictable when we're in two different camps.

Sara: 00:12:22

Oh, Yeah. and let's be clear, in paper management, there's so many departments with marriage, we're just talking about paper management. to, maybe we'll have a part three for paper management where we talk about how do you do it with a spouse. So, recycling, shredding, and then processing. So for me, it's not that the processing, and this is what I go through with my clients as well. So this is a good journey of exploration. So let me ask you, Lacey, when you sit down, let's say you do get paper, you haven't made a paper list, you do have paper and you have to process. Do you do it as needed? Meaning like once it fills up a basket? Do you do it like on a once a week type thing? how do you process the paper that does end up in your house that's not in Joe's pile?

Lacey: 00:13:09

Ideally, I would do it as it comes in. That would be, what I would say my ideal is. And I do maybe about a third to half the time where it's okay, what is this? This is a bill that needs to get paid. That is not electronic. I have a pile of to be done stuff and that it goes there. and then I take that pile probably like once a week or so, and then do the stuff associated with it. But then the other part of the time is, sorry, I just, I know how bad this is going to sound as it comes out. I get bitter, and I'm like, I have to go through this pile, and half of it's not even for me, and so I'll just let the pile sit. And then the pile gets out of control, and then, randomly I'll get angry and take care of it. Yeah.

Sara: 00:14:03

No shame at all because as you were talking I was like, why don't I do it? I too, there's no before and after fun. there's no reward to it. Like I talk about when you buy a house, it is so fun to pick out a new couch and be like, I'm going to spend money on a new couch. I get to sit on it. It's beautiful. It makes me happy. It is not fun to spend money on electrical. yes, you have electricity, but most of what they do is behind a wall and you can't see it. And you're like, I don't get to see my 2, 000 worth of electrical work other than the lights are working. So I feel like paper management for me is that. There's nothing to see. There's nothing to get joy from. Like when I mow the lawn, I can See that it's mode I can relate to you on that. So maybe I just need to give myself a reward.

Lacey: 00:14:53

part of me, I don't know how to like, is shredding joyful for you? Because part of me thinks shredding sounds kind of fun.

Sara: 00:15:02

definitely I definitely do get joy from shredding because the pile goes from a pile to nothing and I do actually enjoy that part. What I really don't like and I'm realizing too is because I like to be in motion. I will get rid of emails while I'm walking on the treadmill because I had to pair it with something. So when I'm doing paper management, I'm just sitting there. it's making the phone call. It's logging into the portal. That's not taking your, password, even though you reset it. And then it's like that monotonous, there's no dopamine, lift anywhere in the process, right?

Lacey: 00:15:37

yes, I get that. But part of me is I feel like there could be, like if it's a physical pile and you get to see as you take care of things, The pile goes down.

Sara: 00:15:48

Yes. Okay. So I'm going to try to hack this.

Lacey: 00:15:51

Ooh, yeah.

Sara: 00:15:52

And then I got to relish in it being empty. that's maybe where I have to make it part of the process. Cause I've tried to hack this many different ways. Yeah, maybe I'm gonna go find a really, really pretty container. And then when it's empty,

Lacey: 00:16:08

There's like a smiley face or a picture of a bird at the bottom or something.

Sara: 00:16:13

Oh, I'm gonna do some like adulting

Lacey: 00:16:14

Yeah.

Sara: 00:16:15

At the bottom. Where do you keep your paper? Where does it sit?

Lacey: 00:16:20

I'm getting better. I just want to say I'm getting better. And still not great. what usually happens is mail and stuff come in with Joe and the kids at the end of the day. And it lands somewhere on countertop kitchen table arena. And then I usually process it by getting rid of the things that need to get rid of. I've started recruiting the kids. Like last night, Isaac came in and he was like, here, mom. This is the piece of mail we got today. And I was like, great, bud. Just go throw it away because it was like a Cruise catalog that's not even really addressed to us. So I'm trying to get them involved because they do love to be a part of things and then if it's something that needs to be taken care of it's supposed to go into a Mail sorter thing that's on one of our countertops And then the idea is that I take what needs to be processed up into the office or wherever I'm going to process it and then do that. And then it gets thrown away or shredded

Sara: 00:17:21

I just realized I love these details. I could talk to a hundred people and ask them this question. Like I want to hear how everyone does it because I'm just so intrigued. So I'm coming back for me problem solving. I'm just like I need to pair it along with having that Pretty bucket that makes me happy and there's something at the bottom. I need that dopamine reward and everything I keep coming back to is like food, which I'm like no Mama doesn't need to be putting more food in your pile But like what other dopamine reward could I give myself like when you finish all your mail for the week? You get to, I need something.

Lacey: 00:17:59

there, I'm thinking of it more as a co thing, is there a podcast that you really look forward to listening to that you could listen to while you're doing it

Sara: 00:18:07

So that's the thing is I actually, when I'm processing, I need all of my brain.

Lacey: 00:18:13

Okay.

Sara: 00:18:14

If I'm just sorting, if I'm like just opening, when I shred certain things, I don't shred the envelope if I don't have to. So I'll open it and pull it apart. I can do that while I'm listening to a podcast. But when I'm actually doing the thinking part, I need

Lacey: 00:18:29

So it truly needs to be an after.

Sara: 00:18:31

Yes. And I use, sometimes I can do that with a show that I'm watching, but then you finish the show and then you're like, I don't have a show anymore. I'll keep pondering that. I do want to give out a filing hack that a friend introduced me to. I would put the stuff that was done. I'm like, okay, I've dealt with this, but I do need to keep this record for whatever reason. I'm going to put it in my filing pile and my filing pile would get out of control because I never wanted to do the filing.

Lacey: 00:18:58

I will say, one thing that I'm considering doing as we're talking is getting one of those desktop scanners. And just, I'm just going to start scanning everything in. And go from there, because I think I might actually accomplish things better. Because if something's digital, it is easier for my brain to process it.

Sara: 00:19:14

Yes, and I definitely know people who do that and that is like just so easy for them they just scan it and then it's gone for me. I am more of a paper person.

Lacey: 00:19:23

What if, hold on. What if that's the solution for me and Joe as well? Of I'll scan it for you, I get rid of the actual paper, and then you have a, he has like a digital mail inbox. I'm gonna look up scanners right now. I'm listening. I'm just too excited to not look up a scanner.

Sara: 00:19:43

Real time solution problem solving I love this. So the filing hack that a friend introduced me to was Macro filing versus micro filing so micro filing would be This is a medical document for the one person who lives in your house. this is the warranty for this very specific thing in the house. It goes in the house folder. So instead of doing that, she would do it by year. So everything that happened in that calendar year would go in the 2022 folder. So instead of doing it by event or person. It would be by year. And boy, oh boy, has that cut down my filing time Dramatically. Because the amount of time you actually have to go back and get that document, you're keeping everything just in case.

Lacey: 00:20:36

I think that's part of the reason why I get so mad because it's just in case of what? Who's gonna care?

Sara: 00:20:42

I This is so funny where I get to take the, I am the pro just, I'm the, I am the just in case gal. Like I really am. just in case of what? Yeah. Sometimes, like when we went to work with our financial planner, we needed such a slew of documents that were so obscure. And I was like, Oh, I actually have all of those, And so I was able to go back and make a pile, I can easily see how if you're a scanner girl, that would be super easy to pull those all up from scanning. I will be honest, I keep more just in case than I need to,

Lacey: 00:21:16

Yeah.

Sara: 00:21:17

but that makes me feel good. But I also, and this is where I'm using home management for everyone tips. I have a very defined limit. what I'm going to keep. I have a filing cabinet and I am never going to get a bigger filing cabinet. It is two drawers. So when that baby is full, and I keep all of our manuals in there too. Do you keep manuals?

Lacey: 00:21:44

not really. If I had my, again, if I had my choice, no.

Sara: 00:21:47

I'm very, no wonder I'm, no wonder I'm such a big Joe fan. I'm realizing how similar we are. I keep all of our manuals. I keep all of Yeah, I keep a lot of stuff. But when the drawer, we talked about like during the clothes episode, when you realize you're having to push into your drawer to get it shoved closed, when I start getting to that point, I'm like, okay, I got to go through the filing cabinet. And then instead of getting another filing cabinet, I just clear out what I can. Maybe that's what I need to lean into. I like the throwing out part. That feels good. I think what I'm really distilling it down to, it's just that part of life that is necessity, sometimes being an adult is boring.

Lacey: 00:22:29

being an adult is so boring.

Sara: 00:22:31

Sometimes, I just don't want to admit that.

Lacey: 00:22:34

It's so boring.

Sara: 00:22:35

I can still remember as a little kid, I was so excited when the mail would come. I'm a kid from the 80s, so it was just, that was really exciting. the catalogs, I had a pen pal, And, I'm all excited that my dad would bring it in, and I remember this one time, I was like, Oh my god, that's so exciting! You get so much mail! And he's they're bills. Do you hear, do you want my bills? and my dad's actually like a very upbeat guy. And so it was a very stark contrast. I was like, Oh, male gets not fun as you get older. Oh yeah. Again, call out to our audience. If you know of anyone who is just like a paper management ninja, I would love to hear. I want to say I do have a lot more sympathy for my clients who have executive functioning challenges because our expert Corey And in, Home Management for Neurodiversity, you can learn more about this, how and I think about this all the time, if you think about the input needed to do a task for somebody without neurodiversity, I think about it like being at the arcade, you're like, oh, to play this game, you need two tokens. that's how much motivation it takes to do a task. But when you're neurodiverse, it can be like, Oh, this game needs 20 tokens to even get started. And I can really feel that when it comes to paper management Oh, I need 20 tokens to start. But for neurodiverse folks, that's every single task that is doing the laundry, washing the dishes. Making a grocery list, going to the grocery, that is every single task is 20 tokens for them. And so if anything it gives me sympathy, which is good.

Lacey: 00:24:21

So I've been working on home management for everyone as a notion template I've been working on it a lot lately and little bits of especially with meal planning, I've got some stuff that I'm really excited about that I've been working with, and I'm like, oh. This can go into Notion as like tasks and wait for things to be handled and then certain documents, there's a way that we can say, yes, this needs to go in the HOM, for the manual, so I want to find something that allows me to do that. I'm, I am getting nerd excited over here and I need to wait.

Sara: 00:24:55

oh that's very exciting. I was just thinking about the scanner, like I can't wait to get an update to see if that is the solution for all of the Joe mail.

Lacey: 00:25:05

Isaac gets excited about things. How fun would it be for a kid to be feeding a scanner? I think he would actually really like that.

Sara: 00:25:13

and I'm going to go ahead and plug. I think we've mentioned we're bringing out home management for kids in the fall, and it's what the basic premise is about bite sizing task. you're not giving them the task of paper management, but yeah, if you can give your child the task of putting something in the recycle bin or when they're old enough, scanning a document, not only are they helping with the workload, they're also understanding, Oh, these are things I'm going to have to do when I manage my own space.

Lacey: 00:25:40

Isaac's starting kindergarten in a couple of weeks and it's a half day kindergarten. he and I chatted and since I work from home, I'm like, okay, bud. I'm going to give you the option that you don't have to go to a before and after school program because I work from home and I will be here, but that does mean that you're going to have to be productive and independent during Some of that time that you're here and it's not time for kindergarten Joe and I were talking last night about really coming up with some because Isaac if he could he would be on his tablet or watch shows or play video games the whole time and I'm like we can't have that because we are very liberal in when they get to use that stuff when it's outside of school, because when they're in school, they don't do those things at all, right? So that's usually been my, go to in the back of my mind of, okay, it's okay if they're doing that most of the time here when we're not out and about, because they're not doing it all these other times, right? Joe and I last night, I was like, we're going to have to come up with some structure and things. And one of the things I was thinking about is that he's going to have a chore that he has to accomplish every morning. Cause he's going to be in PM kindergarten. he's going to get picked up around like 11 ish, Cause he does good with a schedule and having to do certain things. so I think having a task for him every morning will be good. I'm like, this can be one of his tasks that I think he would enjoy. It's technology, but it's pretty, contributing to the household, I'm pretty, pretty jazzed for that. And I think you're right. Cause like you said, as a kid, I was like, look at all this mail. This is so much fun. And I guess learn early that it's not fun,

Sara: 00:27:21

And this is not related to paper management, but this, I do have an idea, are you interested in my idea of setting Isaac up for success with morning chores? Okay. Thank you. This happened by accident for me. I am actually not a great artist, but when my son was really little and he started, co k. he was really little and I needed help getting him ready in the morning. Like I needed him to be accountable for steps to get on the bus at a certain time. And so he didn't know how to read and write yet. So I actually took a piece of paper, pretty big and I drew out and I made blocks. And so I made the blocks of all the steps that he needed to do in the morning and I did it loosely in order. I had a picture of cereal and I just drew it. and then I did right underneath. I wrote breakfast and then I drew her toothbrush and I wrote brush teeth. So I had out all of the steps he had to do to get himself ready because kids need direction. They're not going to remember all those things. So when he would say, what's next? I would point to the refrigerator and he would just go through them. Like I've done this one, I've done this one. Oh, I need to do this one. And so part of his morning chores, which has evolved as he's gotten older, but he takes the deposit cans. So in New York state, we have deposit cans. So they go in a separate bag. he can carry the cans to the deposit bin, and then he would empty the dishwasher, all of the, plastic. So nothing sharp, nothing breakable. And he would empty those out, I would write AM chores, and then I had a little drawing. And Trust me, every single morning I had to redirect him to it, but once he was back at that, he could actually self direct what chore was next. so that might be fun for him if he, if you're like, what should we draw in this square? And then he can be part of that

Lacey: 00:29:14

he would really like that. So I've got, you've given me some ideas. I like it.

Sara: 00:29:19

I always kept that on the fridge. And what's funny is when he got to an age where I thought he was old enough and I got rid of it, quickly learned that was still a useful tool. We didn't need the pictures anymore, but we did need a list of the steps. Because as I learned, when you become a teenager, your executive functioning actually regresses.

Lacey: 00:29:39

Okay.

Sara: 00:29:40

okay, but back to paper management. conclusion, or next steps, Lacey's gonna find a scanner. Very excited to hear if this is a solution for the Joe situation. I'm gonna find something really pretty to put the papers in. I'm gonna try to make that process as enjoyable as possible and try to find something to pair it with that is very much happy for me. because the processing is boring, but it very much has to be done. And piling it up doesn't make it easier. I

Lacey: 00:30:18

We're getting rid of everything!

Sara: 00:30:20

love rage cleans! I love it! So much gets done in such a small amount

Lacey: 00:30:26

It does. Do the people around you love rage cleans?

Sara: 00:30:30

They've learned to be out of earshot when they happen, because otherwise, They just get tasks and chores. Mine aren't as much rage fueled as they are just like adrenaline fueled. this is all happening in the next 15 minutes, but I'm not really mad, but you will get a task if I see you.

Lacey: 00:30:52

yeah, I understand that. And then I don't know if you get this, but every once in a while I'll get, Do I have to do it right now? Yes! you do. Ooh,

Sara: 00:31:06

when did you think I meant for that to get done? why are you still sitting there? Nobody ever asked me, did you mean right now? I meant five minutes ago. Yes. what Lacey, what are you thankful for this week?

Lacey: 00:31:25

a lot. Listeners, I don't know if you follow me on social media, you know, I am unexpectedly pregnant in the greatest way possible. I'm very excited about it. Joe's very excited. We're all, excited and blessed about it, but it's a lot. And one of the reasons why I was preventing pregnancies because I was scared of what pregnancy would look like for me as my chronically ill self. And I don't want to mean scared as like worried about my health or anything like that. I'm not like, it's going to be whatever it is. It's more of my capacity to do. That's what made me nervous. And this week I am so grateful for the people around me to let me be whatever I needed to be. So I have been in one of the largest rest periods of my life the past two weeks because, if you know anything about being in your first trimester of pregnancy, you're exhausted. And when you have that on top of ME CFS and changing up medications because you're pregnant and all of these different things, I've been in a place of real rest. Not only have I not fought it, which is huge for me, but the people around me, including Sara, and Joe, and everybody around me, has let me lean into it. And that has been a really profound thing for me in a lot of ways Something I've never really let myself do before. And to know that I can and I should, and that everyone supports me in that is just, I know it sounds so like nebulous of a thing, but it is so visceral to me right now in the moment of how it feels and that it feels good and it feels right. It makes me even more optimistic about, all of the things that are to come for me. that's what I'm grateful for.

Sara: 00:33:21

I am very happy for you because I know what a big step that is. for You to accept and then to actually follow through with the rest. So I'm happy for you. so mine, very different. I don't know if you can see I'm wearing new glasses.

Lacey: 00:33:39

are!

Sara: 00:33:40

I also have prescription sunglasses now. And boy, do I feel like a superhero when I put them on and I can see so darn clearly, I feel like I have superpowers and I love it. I am at this age now where I need prescription sunglasses. And I'm trying more to lean into wow, I can see so clearly now. This is amazing. And same with these glasses, I have a new computer set up, so I had to get them adjusted for the distance. And same thing, I'm like, wow, everything is so sharp and so clear.

Lacey: 00:34:14

Isn't it amazing how you just, realize, oh, life didn't have to be harder. And look at it being easier. This is amazing.

Sara: 00:34:23

I am thankful for, I have an amazing eye doctor who is, Great. And she's patient cause I'm a bit of a unicorn with my eye needs and she's funny and she's great. So I'm thankful for her. I'm just, I'm thankful for glasses. I think back to the day when like they didn't have eyeglasses for people or if they did, it was like, Okay. Here's something, but it's not specific to the person, And I just think about all the headaches and all the eye strain Oh, I'm so thankful. I live in a day and age where I get exactly what I need.

Lacey: 00:34:53

I think that's really beautiful. Because it's your view of the world. It's how you take in the world. Absolutely.

Sara: 00:35:01

So I'm thankful for eyeglasses.

Lacey: 00:35:04

Me too. I'm thankful for you.

Sara: 00:35:06

thank you, Lacey. It was good to

Lacey: 00:35:08

Thank you Sarah.