Lacey: 00:00:05

Welcome to No Shame in the Home Game, the podcast that cares how your home feels, not looks. I am Lacey, your, you know what, today is, that we're recording this, it's the first day of Disability Pride Month, so I'm going to say I'm Lacey, your disabled co host, and she's just fine with it because disabled's not a bad word, and it is who she is. Here with my delightful and supportive co host, Sara. Hi, Sara.

Sara: 00:00:30

Hi Lacey. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I did not know that it was Disability Pride Month and I like learning new things so I'm glad I learned something new

Lacey: 00:00:39

I made, a video and I made, a really long threads post, because, as I say in it, the disability minority group is one that literally at any moment you could join. if that's the only reason for you to care, I think it's a pretty compelling reason. It's, something that I didn't think about before I was where I am now, and I'm a straight, cisgendered, white, middle class lady with all the privileges in the world, and if disability is challenging for me, you can only imagine how it is for people who don't have all those privileges. if I can share my story a little bit and raise awareness, it is the least I can do.

Sara: 00:01:23

that's awesome you are bringing awareness to it. And I think that's all we can ever do is just be more aware.

Lacey: 00:01:31

yeah, yeah. I don't think this comes out until after disability pride month, but that's fine. We can learn any month of the year.

Sara: 00:01:38

I learned after the fact that the last Wednesday in June Joy Day.

Lacey: 00:01:43

It's our bread and butter.

Sara: 00:01:44

everything is going to revolve around that. So you learn when you learn and then you adjust going forward. That's what we do

Lacey: 00:01:50

Absolutely. And I also brought it up because the topic that we're talking about today, the tool we're talking about, I use as a disabled person. It's one of the best tools that Sara gave me when it comes to, managing my life. we're talking about the Good Better Best tool, and I'm going to hand it over to Sara to start chatting about it.

Sara: 00:02:12

That's really interesting that you said that's one of your favorite tools with the disability aspect, because Lacey signed me up to be a speaker with, you say the name of the organization?

Lacey: 00:02:23

Success Society. It's a group for entrepreneurs with chronic illness. That

Sara: 00:02:30

aspect to go off of, and I was like, it's gotta be good, better, best, because it's all about flexing with life. And if there's a group of people who have to flex the most, it's people with disabilities who don't know what days are gonna feel like, more so than most people. People, what I love about good, better, best is it allows for life to happen. Like I said, it's not. Binary. It's not on off. It is the dimmer switch of life, which I just came up with and I couldn't be more excited about.

Lacey: 00:03:01

was so good. I'm over here in my mind, like, and that's a sound clip. So I'm so impressed that you just came up

Sara: 00:03:07

this very much for me is a response to how I grew up. I grew up very much. There is a right way to do things and that is how you must do them to be a valid human being. So I grew up in this very, like you're walking a tightrope and you can't go left and you can't go right. Cause if you fall off, you'll never get back on. But what I love about good, better, best is it just opens up that. That tight rope into this very large interstate that you get to veer all over the place. There is, you get to do whatever you need to do to get to where you need to go. So simply put, if you have an idea of something that needs to get done, it could be a meal that needs to happen. Laundry, cleaning, eating. And I'm coming at it strictly from home management because this is no shame in the home game, but you get to have your ideal, your best. This is, if all things are equal, this is what I want to happen, but you get to flex it. you can't get all the way to best so you can do better and maybe a little bit more life happens. And you have a little less energy, so then you shift over to good. Or, you can always start at good can be your starting point, but having that framework of how can I level this up and level it down, and I don't even want to say up and down because there's no judgment here. It's just that dimmer switch of where can I fall on this continuum of completing a task. The task still gets done. I always give the example of making dinner. If your idea of dinner is making fresh meatballs, having some sauce, maybe doing a fresh salad from your own garden, but then life happens and you're like, okay, I'm not going to do fresh meatballs, but I'm going to use the frozen meatballs. I still have the jarred sauce. Okay. I'll still do the fresh salad. Okay, life continues to happen. You're way too tired. It's the end of the day. Everyone's hungry. Just get food on the table. Good enough. All right, maybe it's a bag of frozen peas and just the meatballs. Maybe forget the bagged salad if you don't have one. Maybe forget the sauce. it's just going, I didn't fail. I simply flexed. Good, better, best. Lacey tell me about good, better, best in your world.

Lacey: 00:05:30

First of all, I want, I didn't fail. I just flexed on a t shirt. So I may be making that later. there's so many things that I want to say. the first thing I want to say is the reason why Good Better Best has had such an, impact on me is because it focuses on the good. Getting anything done is good. It is not a failure. It is good. So, literally, our baseline is a positive thing. even if you think about high, medium, and low, low sounds bad, I'm an A student, y'all. If I get an A I am unhappy with myself, okay? Side note, this is a very lacy thing. And in my graduate program, I ended up with a 3.99 GPA because of one a minus. there's anything about me in a nutshell, that is one

Sara: 00:06:23

what I'm hearing is you're not an A, you're an A plus plus. that's where you would prefer to be.

Lacey: 00:06:29

but in my mind, anything that's not an A is a B. is not good. And that's why good, better, best is so great because good is an A. You did what you needed to do. You accomplished your goals. You got it done. Better. you were able to do it a little bit more and in a little bit of a different way. Best is like rock star. Like we, the baseline is positive. And I think that's something that we don't often see in our world of, doing the bare minimum. And let me just say, I don't like the term bare minimum, but just meeting the goal. That is meeting the goal, especially as we've said in multiple different ways, no one is getting an award for living the most perfect life or being the most perfect mom or making the most perfect. There is no award for that. we just need to be able to accomplish what we need to accomplish to be able to keep moving. So that is one of my favorite parts of Good, Better, Best, is that the mentality and mindset is very positive and not shaming. Because we all, as I've shared many a times, I have shamed the shit out of myself over the course of my life, and it got me chronically ill. That's a oversimplification, but really, it's a big part of my anxiety, and my anxiety exacerbated my symptoms, and it caused all these problems. the other thing that I really like about Good, Better, Best is because it is so flexible. So something that Sara, talked about is like using it as a scale for a task, right? So this is it, you know, getting done. This is it getting done a little bit better. This is it getting done, at the highest level. I like to think about it in the more macro way of, okay, I need for this day to happen. What do I need to get done for it to have just been what I needed to do? And that is my good. And then if, okay, if I have a little bit more energy, What does that better look like? And then if we're talking ideal day, I'm firing on all cylinders. That's best. So what I've done is I've built into kind of my calendar system there. I have a category of this task is a good, better, best. Now chain time will change which category it is. Right. For today, one my things is my kids laundry is sitting in the hallway. The good for me is getting it out of the current receptacle that it's in. And that's, a success. Folding it and putting away is a different thing. Separating it's a different, like they're all different steps. when I sat down this morning, I was like, okay, I want to get this stuff done for the Joyful Support Movement. This is my good. If I can get this done, it's better, So I use it as a way to really organize. more than just a single task or elements of a task. I use it to organize my life because as Sara said, I can't do everything every day. Trust me, your girl's tread.

Sara: 00:09:43

Well, It's not just, you're dealing with chronic illness, which is this own wild ride to try to navigate. So put that aside. life itself just throws curve ball after curve ball, all of a sudden it's raining when it wasn't supposed to be raining. So your outdoor picnic can't be outdoor anymore. All of a sudden the dog is throwing up nonstop. Stop. So your hour of dinner prep is now you driving to the vet. life just keeps happening. And so I feel as though it's essential to know that at any moment it's pivot. it applies in so many different ways. And like you said, it's. Removing that shame element because I get that shame has an importance in life. I really do. However, if we only attach ourselves to shame, then it just drains our energy cup and we don't get anywhere. shame has its place. However, It's not a long term use tool. going back to other examples of good, better, best, I was just editing our episode with Shannon, the nutritionist. we have the very similar mindset of just starting where you are going from A to B, not trying to go all the way from A to Z. she was saying a lot of times clients will say, Oh, well, I didn't have an hour to exercise. So I didn't exercise and her responses. Okay. Could you take a 10 minute walk? If an hour is best, that's awesome. If you have a whole hour to devote to doing weights and cardio and stretching, awesome, but don't go zero. Again, that's that light switch of zero or 60 minutes. Let's just turn the dimmer to 10 minutes. Can you move your body for 10 minutes? And it was the same thing when we were talking about food. okay. It's not about finding the ideal preparation to preserve all the nutrients, like that's good to know, but it's can you just get one more vegetable in your day? again, it's that giving yourself that allowance you don't have to either go I'm gonna eat everything Organic and fresh cut and perfect or I'm only gonna eat fast food and everything processed and packaged like there's a whole variety in between which Is where we live. We live in the in between most of the

Lacey: 00:12:03

I just had another realization of, it's also a pretty solid relationship tool. after we had Isaac, Joe and I had a rough road of adjusting to parenthood and everything that comes along with it. And one of the things that we did that was a huge help is we communicated what we needed from each other every day as a bare minimum. if you can just get these things done for me, I will Be able to function better the next day. one of them became a foundation of our later relationship is that if Joe could do the dishes at the end of the day, so that I start with a clean slate in the morning, it makes a world of difference. and so trust me, he had a whole laundry list for me, it was very nice too, because you could also have the conversation to realize that my good. was really his better, and we were able to see each other a lot better in a nonjudgmental way of Hey, this is just what I need to function. And it also creates space of, if there's a day where he couldn't do that, he could clearly communicate. Look, I just, it wasn't able to happen today because this, and this, and it's that's cool. We know it. We're both on the same page. We can start new tomorrow. So it really could also, one of the beautiful things of this, it gives you a language to talk about things in a nonjudgmental way. Cause if all of it is positive and all of it is moving us to the place that we want to go, it's, we're just sorting it into categories.

Sara: 00:13:42

that's a wonderful point I had not thought about is the communication piece. because you're so right. I think about this conversation Sara from season one had she was talking about Couches with somebody and she said this expression. I'd never heard before which was her couch Ceiling like her dream couch was somebody else's couch floor meaning that was like their basic throwaway couch But that's the same thing is finding again, because I've learned so much from you about communication, how it's so much context is so much where you're coming from. there's so much variability, so you're right. Being able to also communicate. This is what my best looks like and somebody else being like, Oh, my best actually looks different than that. And then that's a good thing with relationships, because I think that's one of the things I've noticed is that when we enter into a relationship, we bring in all of these, Expectations around things, around what does cleaning look like, what is doing the dishes look like, what is doing the laundry look like. Yeah, and so you're right, this does have a great communication piece. I've had that with my husband before, where I'm like, why are you only whatever? And he's because I thought that was the expectation. And I'm like, Oh, that's the bare minimum to me. And he's Oh, I thought it was maxing out. I want to give a wide variety of examples so listeners can start to see how to apply it. I was talking with this woman through a business connection and she also has chronic illness and she was asking me, she's what's your recommendation on how often to change sheets? And I said, good, better, best. Best? everything and wash it. for me, I'm a two week gal. Some people are one week gal do whatever feels good to you, but let's just say you're going to wash everything every two weeks, but you've got chronic illness, so maybe it's not every two weeks. you're washing your top sheet and your flat sheet, once every three or four weeks. I'm like, but at the minimum, just pull off your pillowcase. And throw it in the laundry and just buy a bunch of extra pillowcases. Cause that's the part where you're really getting a lot of stuff. the part that you really want to be like, make sure you're washing. But I was telling her and I'm like, and then when you feel good, wash all those pillowcases and reset it. Hack. I went time heard some moms talking about how they actually put four fitted sheets on their kids, beds, and then they just pull them off one at a time.

Lacey: 00:16:18

Oh, if my kids weren't still in the, bedwetting stage, I would do that in a heartbeat. Absolutely. that's literally, if you could have saw me, my face went wide because that's the kind of thing I want to know in life.

Sara: 00:16:33

And all back to, there is no one way to do things. There's no award for doing things one way you read in a magazine. Nobody's getting a prize. It's what do you need to get done to feel good at the end of the day? And how are you gonna get there? And again, going back to the premise of this podcast, if we can all open up our doors and communicate. I only learned about that fitted sheet hack because I was overhearing somebody at a baseball game. They were telling their closest friends and I happened to be an earshot. But again, if we just open up our doors. And just admit, yeah, I use paper plates on days where I can't stand the thought of having to run two loads of dishes because I am exhausted. can we be honest about that? Putting it through those filters of, this is what I need to do today. To get to the end. I like that you brought up when, Isaac was a baby. 'cause I remember when I was a new mom and I had very high expectations for myself and I quickly, I had to go to what I called survival days, which now I'm realizing would've been good. I was like, me and the baby both eat, if one of us gets a bath or a shower, or at least just changes our clothes, that's all that has to happen. when I told myself it was a survival day, it removed all the guilt and shame and expectation. I just feel like a huge weight was lifted

Lacey: 00:18:02

You know, it's funny is I loved those six weeks after, like the first six weeks where you're recovering, I loved those with both of my Children. And it's because it is one time in my life. I gave myself to live and what just needs to be done. We lived in three hours spurts of feeding because I was breastfeeding. my main goal in life was to keep this kid alive, keep us both comfortable and happy and to bond as much as possible. And so me being able to remove all of that other stuff and just focus on that, I am one of those weird people. I could tell you for days how much I hated pregnancy, but I could also tell you for days how that newborn stage was magic for me. I also just think it's like karma and the universe being like, look, we just killed you for nine months. So you celebrate not puking every day now. but I did, I loved it. And the moment that made it hard again for me is when I went back to work, that's when it was like, Oh, cause then all those regular expectations came back on me. but I just, when I break it down into, oh, that is the one time in my life that I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna watch 75 episodes of HDTV. This baby's gonna sleep on my chest. what's the easiest food that I can get myself? Awesome. Cool.

Sara: 00:19:32

Well, that reminds me to tie this into the buckets of resources. When you're a new mom, you're energy bucket. is not the same. So good, better, best is also when you look at, what do I have available to draw into? And I tell people if you've got more money to throw at dinner prep, And you can pay for those, pre prepped things, or you can pay somebody to come in and prep food for you. You can get to better or best if you can dip into your money bucket. you've got time, you can dip into that bucket. But if your time, your energy, and your money buckets are all scraping the bottom, We're going for good people. I was just at a talk I was so honored to join a mom's group and I was explaining the relationship between your resource buckets and good better best and the looks on their faces of clarity aha of, oh yeah, of course, like it's a simple, it's simple, but nobody ever take, I never was sat down and had anyone explain this to me. I had to fight through the societal expectations of everything should look a certain way. It should be home cooked meals. Everything should be picked up. I worked with a lady who bleached her floors every night. Like I thought for somehow I was supposed to be doing that. I had to fight through this feeling of failure to realize, it's hitting that bottom of the barrel. when I was a new mom of going, I got nothing left to give. Good enough is good enough because I can't actually physically do anything else

Lacey: 00:21:08

I also want to say it's also about permission, right? Because that's something I learned with, my disability and chronic illness is it, for the first time in my life, gave me permission to not have to do X, Y, and Z. And I struggled with that for a really long time. And it's also something that just now, I'm like, oh, man. Poor chronic illness Lacey. I wish she could have had that permission because I genuinely think she could have taken over the world. But that permission, I never felt it. Like I literally had to not be able to move to be able to give myself permission to lower those standards that were made up.

Sara: 00:21:51

because we, and this is why I feel so strongly about this podcast is because we're having these conversations. It is made up. They are unspoken societal expectations that. Once we start talking about them, they lose their grip and their strength. With my work, when I started working with people in home consulting, one of the things I noticed right away was that yearning for permission. And it's I know I don't have any special magical talent bestowed upon me to give anyone permission. I'm just a fellow human being, but somehow me giving them permission to not pair up their socks or to not do a freshly cooked meal every night. Like somehow me giving, yeah, it's okay. that's all they needed to hear. I reached out in the, Joyful Support Village and I've reached out other places to ask friends, I need to hear somebody give me permission to, just read a book all day. Because somehow inside of us, some of us, not all of us, if you don't have this, that's awesome.

Lacey: 00:22:48

Good for you.

Sara: 00:22:49

of us have that like guilt, shame trigger inside of us where we need that permission. So let's go back. I would love to do some more good, better, best. I want you to name anything and then I'm going to good, better, best it. And then I'll do the same. I'll give you one and then you good, better, best of it.

Lacey: 00:23:08

A birthday celebration.

Sara: 00:23:10

Oh gosh, this is a great one for me. Sara, participant one, that is one of her talents, is organizing birthday celebrations. And she loves the theme and the invitations and the handwriting and the calligraphy and all the little party gifts. that is one of her zones of genius. It brings her joy. So good, better, best. Yeah. If you have the drive and the mojo to have a themed and to have the invitations printed and then handwrite that envelopes, like that would be best. Little step down from that would be maybe you can get these like parties in a box, like you can go to these different groups and they'll just send you everything. you're still like doing all that stuff, but somebody's already put it together for you. And then good enough. Honestly, my son's first birthday party. I knew I couldn't Pinterest it. I was just glad we lived. just said, we're having a barbecue on this day. Everyone come. I got all the different types of chips in the grocery store. And that was just like this weird chip buffet. And I asked a friend to grill chicken and that was good enough. It was just people at the same place at the same time packaged food. Boom. I didn't even do invitations. I just like texted people. it was just, it was so basic.

Lacey: 00:24:33

It met all the requirements, for sure.

Sara: 00:24:36

Good, better, best. Okay. I'm in a good, better, best to Lacey. you were talking about laundry. So give me your part of laundry.

Lacey: 00:24:45

so one of the things we found out in the Closed Chair episode, is that I only had best. I only had everything gets folded. Everything gets put away. what I've started to do is, good is everything gets separated. Cause I find when things are separated into person, we can at least find what we need for each other. I have a potty trained and quote quotation marks three year old. So the amount of times that I need to find underwear and shorts for her is. bonkers. So to be able to just separate hers out to be like, I know that this has only Iris's clothes in it and I can find those quickly. Great. Wonderful. So I would say that's my good. My better is everything's separated and folded, right? I'm just trying to get rid of the, put everything away part of things. So I fold Joe's clothes, but he has to put them away. I fold Isaac's clothes, but he has to put them away. I still put away your irises. Honestly, that's good. Best is I fold and hang anything that needs to be hung. Hanging, for some reason, is just an extra step that is so much for me, and so that's best.

Sara: 00:26:00

One of the things on threads I see people post about a lot. One is, I'm tired of Neil Palin ing, what are you all cooking for dinner? The other one is laundry. I'm quoting here people saying, I can't stand the folding and putting away part. And I'm, I go on there all the time and give people permission. I'm like, then don't. Put everything clean in a big old bucket. Then don't do it. if it's driving you up a wall, don't do it.

Lacey: 00:26:28

One of the most amazing things that I've realized, and I'm gonna start trying to figure this out in my own, in other places, is Iris has a closet that has a bunch of shelves in the closet. It worked great for her because if we put it on a lower thing, she can get to it and she's not opening and closing drawers. Guess who isn't always gets her laundry put away? Iris. Cause all I have to do is walk over and set it down. I'm not leaning over to open a drawer. I'm not pushing clothes down I'm going to be exploring this more of how can we use this in a way that works better for me? Another thing that you have said before, and this has stuck with me is, do you hate the putting it away because the drawers are too full? And I'm like, yeah, so I've been trying to keep that in mind. right now I'm in a place where I'm like, I got to go through these drawers.

Sara: 00:27:19

a couple of thoughts. first of all, thank you for sharing that. That's going to bring somebody relief listening. And to piggyback on that, I was talking with Corey. She was our expert, from in between last season, So Corey feels comfortable when everything in her house is a certain way. One of her children's room is not the way she wants it. We talked about just closing the door. We talked about a bunch of different things. One of the things was the clothes. How the clothes just end up on the floor. So I really narrowed down where are the clothes supposed to in quotes supposed to go? I always lean into what I call three quarter bins. So it's not a bin on four sides It's a bin on three sides and then the front part is angled out and I said, okay So what if your child just has three quarter bins stacked? And one of the bins is socks and underwear. One of the bins is shorts. One of the bins is shirts. That way they're off the floor. They're easily accessible. They don't have to open a drawer or a closet. And she's like, Oh, again, I kind of just had to give permission to break that paradigm of using a dresser. yeah, when we moved into this house, they all have, Those bifold closets, so they're very shallow but wide and they all had shelves already in them. for my son, because he was really little when we moved in the house, I got those three quarter bins and I labeled them all and he's responsible for putting his laundry away. He does not put them in the bin the way I would. But he doesn't care if it's wrinkled. He doesn't care if he has to dig through, he separates it and just throws them all in his bins and they're clean and he can get to it and it's easy. exploring that, yeah, that hiccup point again, going back to just putting it all in a bin, I talked to this mom in our community, she has Five kids they all do a lot of athletics. So a lot of socks are happening in the house. And she said, I buy bulk white socks. And when I do the laundry, all the socks go in a big tub and they're by the front door. No one ever asks me where the socks are. They're always in a big tub. And she's yeah, they're too big on some and too small on others. She's I don't care.

Lacey: 00:29:26

See, I hear that and I'm like, that woman is a badass. I don't judge her. I think she's amazing.

Sara: 00:29:32

I was glad I had a conversation with her because she was, she's very calm and I was asking her about all these different things and she's just doesn't matter. She's like, when I get stressed out about things. I'm the only one stressed out. yeah, there's always dishes on my counter. She's but we make it work. she showed me it was mindset. And I really took that away. I just, I desperately, I want this to be like a game. I want people to call in and tell me their frustration points. And I just like good, better, best it. Like I want this like to be a game show again, if this helps one person and it's already helped you, and, It helps me, I have to remember this tool all the time. So if it helps one person listening, just reframe things, good, better, best, how, what needs to happen, what do I want to happen and what's the ideal. And there's all different chapters in our lives. Our job requirements change, the seasons change, our kids age, like it's not forever. It's just making that decision for that day. What is the good, better, best look like? And then flex, flex.

Lacey: 00:30:43

We should probably do some gratitude. I have a lot. So I'm thinking through it. What do you want? Do you have one? Do you want to go first?

Sara: 00:30:51

This is so funny. I told my husband this last night. It's going to sound really weird at first. Okay. So I was opening up this gate and the top of the gate was right below my chin. So towards my face and all of a sudden there was this noise. it was a beetle. It was not going to hurt me. But it was really loud and it was right by my face and then it like flew by me. And what I, what made me happy was that I actually let out a whole spew of expletives. But what I loved about it was just so Like I just loved that. I didn't try to hold it in. I was so scared for a split second because I did not know it was flying at my face. And I said all these ridiculous expletives. Luckily nobody could hear me. but it just felt so pure and unencumbered. that is my 45 year old equivalent of like. When I was in my 20s and I could go to a dance floor, party, and I could just dance like completely unencumbered, no judgment. Like me swearing at a beetle flying by my face was that moment of utter freedom. And then I went over and looked at the beetle where he landed and he was really cute. it was full circle, Good.

Lacey: 00:32:02

Good. I've never called a beetle cute. So good. Good for you on that one.

Sara: 00:32:07

I love bugs, that shouldn't surprise you.

Lacey: 00:32:09

It doesn't. So mine is, we're in the middle of some trips and vacations right now. And I want to have a moment of gratitude for the moment that you reach your destination when you're traveling. So that moment where like, you walk in and you set your stuff down and you've gotten the hard part of getting there out of the way and you only have the part joy of possibility moving forward. I just love that feeling. And cause it's like relief and the hope and everything all wrapped into one. So I'm just, I am grateful for that feeling so much.

Sara: 00:32:50

I love that you highlighted that because I have distinct memories. As a kid, we used to drive to this beach and it was a seven hour drive and that moment where You open the car door, and you get your feet out, and you stretch, and you breathe in the new air, it like smells different. And then you get to stand up, and you're like, oh, I'm free of the travel part.

Lacey: 00:33:13

Yes. You got it. You got it. Yeah. I just, that is something that I've always loved. And we'll just say our latest trip traveling with a three and a five year old, even though they're generally really cool, an 11, 12 hour drive, not something they enjoy. So you can imagine the relief when you get there. And you can say, yes, we are here. It added a new level to it that, yeah, I didn't even recognize before.

Sara: 00:33:45

That is quite the gauntlet for the three and a five year old. When they're really little, it's a lot different. When they get to that age, and they just want to be moving around, and

Lacey: 00:33:53

Yes.

Sara: 00:33:54

time has zero

Lacey: 00:33:55

Oh, don't like, don't even get me started. I could go on that. Like one of my things is I posted this on, on social media of we need to not call it family vacation if the children are under a certain age. Cause it's a trip. It is not a vacation. It is a family trip. Cause I can tell you right now, a lot of that did not feel like a vacation.

Sara: 00:34:18

100%. That's why one of my big platforms in life I believe moms should get least twice a year a three day weekend where they get to go away on their own.

Lacey: 00:34:32

Absolutely.

Sara: 00:34:33

a vacation for mom where she's not a mom.

Lacey: 00:34:38

yeah. So we are, that's where we are. thanks for teaching us more about Good, better, best today, Sara.

Sara: 00:34:45

Thank you for everything, Lacey.