Nutrition for Feels, not Looks with Shannon Woodcock

Lacey: 00:00:05

Welcome to No Shame in the Home Game, the podcast that cares how your home feels, not looks. I'm your co host Lacey, who's just glad we're all here today. A little bit of behind the scenes. We had some technical difficulties, but we're here. We're doing it right, Sara, my co host.

Sara: 00:00:22

I always say that one of the biggest things I've learned as a mom is pivoting. And I feel like here right now, all three of us are mothers and we just, we're like, yep, let's try this. Let's try this. We just kept going. And sometimes in life. That's all you can do. And we pivoted until we all ended up in the same place with audio. So thank you to our guest expert, Shannon. Thank you for your patience. Thank you for showing up today. Please tell our audience. Hello. a little bit about yourself, where you are, whatever you feel like sharing today, we're pretty

Shannon: 00:00:57

casual. Awesome. Hi, thank you for having me. My name is Shannon Woodcock and I'm a functional nutritional therapy practitioner. It's like a big long title. I have a practice here in Cambridge, New York, and that's where I'm hanging out right now is at my office space. I work predominantly with women, mostly with metabolic and digestive health. Although I've had, clients from all sorts of walks of life, a whole little core cohort of children with eczema is kind of another random area that I've worked a lot with. children with gluten sensitivities and things like that. So I've got a lot of different niches, but predominantly metabolic and digestive health and predominantly working with women. yeah, that's how, that's the backbone of my practice. I know you were curious how I got here. I really started down this path because I was having my own horrendous health issues about a decade ago now. that really sent me down a spiral of not being able to get the help that I needed. This is like a story that's becoming really common in my practice where, women are seeking help from their doctors. their doctors do care, but they don't have the tools or they're sending them immediately into a field with a lot of specialists. And those specialists are so hyper focused on individual parts of the body that they don't ever get that support looking at the whole system. And so that was sort of the same case with me as I was having some health issues, and, it really lit a fire under my butt to go back to school and try to figure out what was going on in my body and how I could better support it on a more, practical level than just a lot of either medications and or supplements. I felt like there was some lifestyle things that were getting overlooked. I just didn't know what they were at the time. And, I'm a lot wiser. I have a lot more information on my own body now, and it's really fun to help other people discover that about themselves.

Lacey: 00:02:50

Quick question from me. So I always get very confused in like nutritionist, dietician, So where do you fit in all those titles?

Shannon: 00:03:00

That's an awesome question. So registered dietician, I would say is your more traditional sort schooling approach. that dietitians have their four year bachelor degrees in dietetics. Some of them go on to have a master's degree. And, many states have a licensing program, where dietitians can take their licensure state testing and be licensed in that state. they're able to accept insurance and things like that. And dieticians often go on, not all of them, but many go on, you are a dietician if you're working in a hospital and setting meal plans for patients and, nursing homes and things like that. so that was like the initial certification that you could get in dietetics. And then, over the years. We've seen a need for different types of nutrition. And so now all these other nutrition professionals emerge. So my, program is not a licensed program. It's a certifying program. And so it's a, it has a different background. the education is not as extensive and it's more focused on the body and the whole body and looking at, balance and systems as a whole, rather than, Learning to like count calories and, real specific measurements around what, how much of this you need and micronutrients, macronutrients. So I would imagine that if I sat down with a registered dietitian, who isn't running their own private practice, that we actually do a lot of very similar things. however, the background and our education is just a little bit different, but yeah, there's a lot, there's like kind of a can of worms of different certifying agencies popping out there. Folks who have graduated with my certification are doing more like health coaching, where some have gone on to specialize in, very specific types of nutrition, such as oncology nutrition So yeah, it's a big broad field with a huge, big, net of things, like everyone's running their own thing.

Lacey: 00:04:45

Awesome. Thank you.

Sara: 00:04:46

Okay. This is where I get really excited. I want to say how I met Shannon and then I want to say how I came to understand her journey and I'll say it in my own words and then Shannon gets to correct me. So first of all we met we're both in upstate New York and we had a mutual connection who is my son's music teacher, my drumming teacher, and one day I'd known Chelsea for years one day out of the blue she just says I know somebody else from Nebraska. it was so funny because it wasn't like she just met you. It was just all of a sudden she plucked it from the tree. and so I reached out to Shannon and said, we had this connection. So we met up for coffee and we could have talked all day, but we both had things we had to get to. And I mean, it was instantly just. Okay. We're definitely going to talk again. And so that is our connection as we both grew up in the same city, but we're both now living in upstate New York. And what I heard from your journey What I heard was you had this health journey. It was Lyme's right? That

Shannon: 00:05:43

was a component

Sara: 00:05:44

to it. Yeah. Lyme's. Okay. And your health. it changed because of what was going on and you got to this point and you weren't feeling like you were before. You didn't feel great. And like you said, you started down that rabbit hole specialists who are looking at things through their own little lens, but you kept going no, there's gotta be a different way. Like I'm not feeling good. And I know I've been there too, where I'm looking at doctors going, I don't feel good. And what you're telling me is only perpetuating the problem. It's not actually making things better. So what I heard is you took it into your own control to go, what can I do? And then you started learning more about nutrition and you went down this path. And what you told me was you at first did this for yourself. To absolutely heal yourself. And then you saw this opportunity of oh, other people could benefit from this, which I thought was just so beautiful because that shows that voyage of discovery of. I need this for me. And oh, it can also help other people, which is actually how I came to the work I'm doing, and it's so similar when you're talking about that nuanced, how specialists or even the dieticians, they might count calories and look very, very lasered in right. And sometimes when people try to understand my work and they automatically think of. organizers. And I'm like, well, that's part of it. we're not going to discount that, but if we're only looking at something like through a very specific, very tight lens and you're not zooming out and looking at the whole home as an organization, you're not seeing how it's all working together and what's influencing. And that's why I got so excited when we were talking, cause you were saying all these things about nutrition that Just to make darn sense, like I mentioned to you that my son's a vegetarian and then you were talking about how, I think what you said was if there's not enough protein, then that can actually influence your anxiety and your emotions. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I, it makes sense, but I hadn't heard, I didn't know that it wasn't on my radar. So I'm immediately like, okay, how do I up my son's protein? and it's just to me, it's one of those aha, where it makes so much sense. I don't know, Lacey, do you feel like this where you're just like, wait, nutrition, like we all eat and it's in every cell in our body. Oh, yeah, like this is the cornerstone.

Lacey: 00:08:09

and I have a very complicated relationship with food, and I think a lot of people do. my biggest frustration has been that all of the diet recommendations don't take into account like actually living your life and I would say in the past. Six months is the first time that I've been able to actually really make these solid changes because instead of focusing on that end goal, I'm focusing on, okay, how can I make this work in my life? and that's been a big change for me. I found this, dietician who's on TikTok, but she had such a good way of explaining intuitive eating, because that's something I've always been trying and her explanation of it actually made sense to me. And because of that, and then me learning, but part of my problem is I've never trusted my body. So How can I listen to it to then eat the right things? No one was ever concerned about that. So there's just all these little things that have a really big impact on what we eat, when and how that. don't get addressed. We'll just say that.

Shannon: 00:09:22

Yeah, absolutely. I can think of one client in particular who she said to me at a certain point in our work together, she said, Oh my gosh, all these years I've had this view that my body is working against me and that I am, mistreating my body. And now I realize it's the other way around. I'm actually actively working against my body with every decision that I make, what I'm putting into it and how I am using it. And I'm realizing that my body was never doing, it was, my body was just responding to what I was doing. Not, it's not its own separate entity with a mind of its own. That is Doing its own thing over here. And you're trying to do something totally different and it's not working. It's that if you're not actively seeking out ways to enhance your nutrient quality or the amount of nutrition that you're getting and whatnot, your body just can't, doesn't have the programming. It doesn't have the raw materials to do what you're asking it to do. And then it's not working properly. So I love that. I love intuitive nutrition. I love people just like listening to their bodies. And what is your body asking you? And sometimes we do need a little guidance for what is our body asking? It's saying something. We just don't know what it is right away. We didn't necessarily grow up in a culture of listening to our bodies. We've really grown up in a culture of listening to experts, quote unquote, I'm in that category of people. And I'm so Conscious of that whatever I say to people, that they actually are taking it home and listening to what I'm telling them, and really, ultimately, I actually want them to listen to themselves. What's their body saying, not what am I telling you your body's saying.

Lacey: 00:10:54

Yeah, and I have PCOS, and so my body was telling me. To eat carbs, but everyone's like, no, you're not supposed to do that. And so I'm like, my body is wrong. And then I actually really like carbs. And so then I'm just suffering. And then you can only suffer for so long. And it's just such a cycle of. Shame that, I have a lot of willpower, but it can only last for so long.

Shannon: 00:11:22

Yeah, and I always tell people, I'm like, willpower is a muscle and it has to be exercised, but on that same note, you can only use your muscles for so long, and so we have to actually learn really solid, habits in the kitchen so that we don't have to use that muscle so much. Like any one muscle on your body does not want to get used all day. No one would want to stand and do calf raises all day long. Cause it would get very tiring, very quick. Your calves would be cramping up by nighttime and you would totally lose your ability to stand there. So willpower is the same way. It's just a muscle and we have to exercise it to some extent, but we also need to like have tools for not having to use that muscle so much.

Sara: 00:11:59

and I think this is such a beautiful, like it just all came together of why I felt like you were such a perfect expert to bring on because no shame in the home game. We don't care how your house looks. We care how it feels to you and everyone in it. And it's not a one size fits all and you get to listen to your own pain points. That's when I work with clients, one on one or on the podcast, it's tell me where it doesn't feel good. don't tell me what you think society wants your house to look like. Tell me what doesn't feel good. And that's when you and I were talking, that's what was clicking for me is no, like, you don't care how your client's body looks. You care. How does your client feel? Do you feel the way you want to when you wake up in the morning and get through the day, right? And it's like looking at that, pinpointing that problem, looking at the fundamental elements, looking at you as a total system and realizing it's not a one size fits all. What one person needs is going to be different from what another person needs, depending on their own, what they do in a day or how their body's, made up. everyone's got different needs, right?

Shannon: 00:13:07

Yeah. I don't think that one size fits all is appropriate for anything really in life. but I do, think there's some basics of places. Like I always tell people when I do group programs, I'm like here, this is a starting point. here's 10 people in one room together. And I'm trying my best to individualize my. information. So let's all start with this one place. but understand that my expectation is that you're going to go home and tweak this. You're going to listen to your body. You're going to tap in to what your body's telling you. and I give them tools for doing that so that they can say Oh wow, like this is where I started. And that is better than where I was feeling before, but I'm still kind of extra hungry. What's wrong on this plate? I'm picturing this plate that I often show people where like this is starting points for how much protein how many vegetables how much starch But everyone's really different, I might highlight in the room that there's One woman who's postmenopausal her plate might actually feel better, slightly tweaked than this woman who's 20 years old and is expending a lot more energy metabolically just because of her age and she's still in a muscle building stage, not a muscle loss stage. She's just burning more calories throughout the day. Her needs are going to be a little different based on this one plate. Then this woman who's, 10 years post menopause, has really low estrogen and progesterone and whatnot. And, those are going to look different, but you can start with the same picture, but then they have to work. And then they also have different goals. One might get headaches and the other one has. cramping at night or some constipation, like that changes what you need to put on your plate all of a sudden. and some people do have to be more careful about certain types of macronutrients or even micronutrients, based on their physiological needs. And that's really hard to speak to a whole audience in that regard. because everyone's so unique.

Sara: 00:14:55

Can you actually, I hear macro and micronutrients often.

Shannon: 00:15:00

Yeah.

Sara: 00:15:00

Is there like a short. Explanation blurb, or does that go deep dive real quickly?

Shannon: 00:15:05

No, I can say so macronutrients are our three main nutrients. We eat carbohydrates, proteins and fats. There's just three of them. That's really easy. Micronutrients are all those vitamins and minerals that we get in the phytonutrients. I would put in that category. And so all the things that we're getting from when we digest those foods, those are breaking down into micronutrients, the smaller particles from the carbohydrates, the proteins and the fats.

Sara: 00:15:35

when I thought about bringing you on, I thought about, okay, let's help some of our listeners. I'm going to tell you a little bit about, what we're doing in this day to day, and both you and I are the same in the approach of we're not interested in overwhelming or not interested in telling people here's 10 things like that's my whole thing with like magazine blurbs it's do these 10 things in your life will be perfect and don't tell me to do 10 things I'm immediately like, no. You had an idea of what one of the common things that you hear often from women about food. And if you'd like to share what that is with our audience.

Shannon: 00:16:08

Yeah. my goal for everyone I work with is to help them increase their vitality. And I think we can only do so by Putting more nutrition into our body. and that looks different again for everybody. Like we just said, one of the common things that I see people doing that I think is to their detriment is and I'll speak to women, cause again, that's my predominant audience skipping meals, on a regular basis. I see coffee becoming a substitute for breakfast. A deadline becoming a substitute for lunch and, whatever comes up for dinner is sometimes amazing, sometimes not, and they may only get that one meal with some random snacks in the day. And, this is so basic, but I had to go back to school to understand this. every single thing that happens in your body is nutrient dependent, every chemical and enzymatic reaction that happens, all the precursors to your hormones, all of the precursors to your neurotransmitters, all of your digestive juices are built from nutrients. So if you've taken off. Two of those meals and now you only have one that better be like the best meal that you could ever create for anyone. And I don't even know what that would look like. I don't know. You're just drinking organ meats out of a straw or something, but you really have to eat a lot of food and a variety of food for your nutrients. So as you, but don't become deficient in anything. and I also know I'll sometimes have women say Oh, but I read about intermittent Fasting And I'm not knocking any of those things. there are some serious health benefits to fasting appropriately, but first I think we need a foundation of eating really well before we can incorporate these other, lifestyle hacks that might get us some other benefits. It's like you can't fast if you're not eating. so that's my first thing is I look at food journals all the time and people are just not eating a meal period, much plus a good meal. Don't do that. Don't skip a meal.

Sara: 00:18:09

I know from my upbringing I can remember so distinctly in middle school and we were, me and my girlfriends were obsessed with counting fat. And I remember going over to this girl's house and it was like two in the afternoon. She's I've had zero fat today. I had skim milk and then like some sugary cereal. No fat. And I just I think back to that moment of how, focusing on that one thing and then how our bodies were developing and changing. And we were running around the neighborhood all day long. Cause it was summertime. And we weren't like giving our bodies. What they need. it's just like you said, it's a signal for neurotransmitters, like how we were feeling emotionally, like everything. And we were hurting ourselves thinking we were doing the best by not doing the fat. there's so much deprogramming. there's some kind of inverse success at starving yourself. oh, if you didn't eat lunch, then like somehow you won some kind of imaginary point. I don't know what that was. I don't know. is this resonating with either of you, like hearing those messages from society growing up But then, on the other hand, what gets pushed in our faces by media is often the least nutritious, And I know our target, our audience, most of our audience is probably going, that sounds great, but I work, I have kids, I'm doing this, I'm going here, I'm going ramping up into summertime. Yeah. So many people on threads are just saying, I want nothing to do with cooking. I don't want a meal plan. It's warm out. I don't want to, there's a lot of pushback. Cause I think in the fall and the winter we're at home, it's darker earlier. Like we can wrap around the idea of making like a big wholesome meal. So what would these target audience of your women? And encouraging them to eat these nutritious meals. What are some easier nutritious meals that come to mind that you'd like to recommend?

Shannon: 00:20:11

Yeah, that's a good question. This has been my experience. I actually think the hardest thing, most of us can come by carbohydrates pretty easily. We can find, could we make improvements to the carbohydrates we're eating? Definitely. I actually find that protein is the hardest for anyone to take in, because you can't eat raw meat. you shouldn't probably eat raw meat. maybe fish, we could argue that there's some benefits of sushi or whatnot. so for a lot of people, and a lot of people are really timid in the kitchen. To cook proteins. So I'll see people go okay, I totally understand that I need foods that are high in protein. And that doesn't have to just be animal products, but plant based proteins often need preparation as well. Your beans and your legumes, like they need some preparation. and they just don't make the time for that. So I would say if anything, focus on. Your protein and focus on how you're going to create enough of that for a game plan for a week because the other things you're going to squeeze in there. You can eat your red peppers raw, whether you have time to cook them or not. And we do a lot in the summer. We call them like bird dinners where we like put, we have a big burger Cutting board and I'm just throwing some fats in the way of nuts and seeds and I'm throwing some chopped vegetables because we come home at the end of the day and then it's what's going to be the protein on there? Because I know that's so important for so many people. And so these are the things that I like to do. I like to think of batch cooking, when it comes to protein. I really, I do love red meat. I'm like a big steak fan. And so I might cook, if we're going to grill steaks on a Sunday night, I might grill as much as three extra large steaks. Like to just be able to slice them now and have them the next night and throw them on the bird dinner tray cold, or throw them on a salad for lunch, or actually I like to reheat them and have them with eggs in the morning too. So same thing with chicken breasts, same thing with pork. I just always think I had actually had a client in one of my restart classes. I loved the way she said this. She said, anything. That you can do now is like giving a gift to your future self, so she said onions are terrible to chop. So every time she chops an onion, she chops to knowing that she's going to need an onion later in the week at some point. And I just loved that image of yeah, I'm doing this for myself. And I do remind myself of that all the time. I ended up in this position, but it doesn't mean I have this like culinary expertise. I just officially bought myself my first really nice knife and it's making such a big difference in the kitchen. but I'm not an expert chef and my meals don't always look beautiful. They're not always Instagram worthy. and, just making sure I say to myself, okay, if I eat this lunch, what it means to me is that when my kids Get home from school or they get home from camp or whatever's going on in your summer schedule. I actually have energy to hang out with my kids. I have energy to go out and kick a soccer ball. I have energy to take them swimming. I have energy to like, just. sit with them and go over their day where if I don't eat that lunch, I don't have that energy. I'm a little irritable. They're going to come home and I'm going to feel rushed to get dinner cause I'm hungry and I don't have time to just unwind with them. And so I say those things to them. Myself often when I'm like, Oh, I could just sit here on the computer and work a little longer, or I could get up and make a meal if I'm working at home, or I could get up and eat the meal that I brought with me to work or whatever. So I think it's like changing that dialogue with ourselves and not saying like, Oh, I'm so busy I can't make a. Breakfast. It's I'm so busy. I need this breakfast to nourish my body so that I can continue to be busy successfully. because there's a difference between being busy and being stressed out and busy. And I know that a lack of nutrients will certainly make me feel that frazzled busy state, where you're like overwhelmed with the busyness rather than just embracing it. And so for me, having a meal is a big. game changer.

Lacey: 00:23:50

I agree about protein, but I think the other thing that I always hear, you need to have a lot of, and I always feel like I'm falling short is fiber. Do you have any suggestions like that for fiber, like things you can batch or that type of

Shannon: 00:24:04

That's a great question because, I always say like protein and fiber for so many of my clients are like a gut. We're talking gut health and we're talking metabolic health. We need both of those. I picture a plate and I picture that at least half of my plate has vegetables on it. That is a crap ton of vegetables, by the way. Most people aren't even getting that over the course of a day. but vegetables have a lot of fiber in them. having some whole grains, beans and legumes are phenomenal for, getting enough fiber. and so I always think of okay, do I have enough fiber at each meal? avocados are an awesome, quick, go to high fiber meal. Raspberries are an awesome high fiber, food. I like to do like fresh ground flax seed and I like my favorite snack is banana with some nut butter and fresh ground flax seeds. It's one of my favorite little. Quick go to snacks that I like to eat, but I'll put fresh ground flaxseed on like my yogurts it just tastes so yummy. if I'm doing some baking or anything like that, I'll often use, oat bran or wheat bran or something to, sometimes I add psyllium husk, sometimes I add sun fiber, sometimes I add fibers into muffins or things that I know that we're going to have on hand for a while. yeah, and just picking whole grains over processed foods. and leaving the skins on your vegetables, like sometimes we peel the heck out of everything. sometimes that's warranted because there might be germs and whatnot from the grocery store, depending on where you're getting them. But I also leave the skins on all my potatoes and sweet potatoes and my beets and things like that, just to up the fiber a little bit. Not everybody does well with those fibers, by the way. So it's if that makes you uncomfortable, peeling the skins can help. If you don't digest them well, but, but yeah, we really need women. It's like a recommendation. We're looking at like 25 grams at least, every day, which, as you break that down, I think, okay, how can I get 10 grams at each meal, give or take.

Sara: 00:25:48

does the preparation change the fiber or nutrient? let's say raw broccoli versus, I like to roast my broccoli. Am I losing anything there?

Shannon: 00:25:57

Yeah, you are. cooking and heating things can, degrade some of the nutrients. I will often encourage people to just, like, change it up. But, because in some cases it makes the nutrients more bioavailable. It's like a kind of this catch 22. Um, some foods have a lot of water soluble. nutrients. boiling them, you're going to lose the nutrients through the boil. usually as lightly prepared as possible, but that being said, I love roasting vegetables. so I do a lot of roasted vegetables at the end of the day. I just want you to like the food that you're eating. And so I always say First, like, get your bases covered, make sure you're eating a nice nutrient dense meal, cook it the way that makes you the happiest and makes it taste the best, because then you're going to eat more of it. when you're doing all of those things really well and really solidly, then we can, go in and be like, Wow. You still seem pretty deficient in vitamin C. let's look at some of the places where, cooking that broccoli might take away some of that vitamin C or boiling the broccoli might, damage some of that. Then we can get nitpicky about where you're doing that. But first just make sure you're getting the broccoli. and then, you're getting it in a way that your body like craves and enjoys. so yeah, there's different things and there's other tricks we can use to I like to take those brassicas and squeeze lemon juice over top of a lot of my dark leafy greens and, broccoli and things like that to help with the nutrient absorption. So there's ways we can also enhance, the absorption of some of those foods, but, cooking can be detrimental. It can also change the fat content or the types of fats that can degrade fats too. just being careful to Eat enough raw, plus enough cooked, just to get a variety of different things.

Sara: 00:27:29

the takeaway I got from that. And what I want the listeners to focus on is. First, just get the vegetables and the fiber. Just get it in the protein. Just get it in your house. Just do that first. And then look at diversifying, which I think is great. sometimes I focus on that end, like perfection. And it's like, no, just get in the house. Just start getting a protein. Piece of broccoli in your house and then focus on the next part.

Shannon: 00:27:52

get so sidetracked. It's like I read a really cool statistic. You cut your garlic and you let it sit for 10 minutes. It enhanced, the cancer fighting properties, and then people are like, Oh my God, I don't have 10 minutes to let sit there. And then they just don't cook the broccoli at all, and they get sick. overwhelmed or the same thing happens when I've talked with clients about soaking and sprouting their grains or their nuts and seeds or their, beans and legumes. And so they get so focused on that, like piece of it that then they just don't eat the food at all versus just saying Oh, it's still better to eat. Some beans that haven't been soaked than to not have the beans at all. or it's so much better to take a 10 minute walk than not taking a walk. But I see that a lot too, where people are like, I didn't have an hour to exercise. I'm like, great, do it for 10 minutes. But they're just, we are so all or nothing in this society.

Sara: 00:28:40

I was just going to say that, like, perfection is the enemy of. Progress. But what were you going to say, Lacey?

Lacey: 00:28:45

I, as you were talking, I'm remembering like these quote unquote rules that I've heard people say where they've eliminated something or they don't choose it because of this very minute specific reason. So it's Oh, I don't really eat bananas because they're higher in sugar. And I was like, it's still a fruit that's going to be better for you than this and this choice. Or, I believe if I remember correctly. Carrots have a tendency to, something with blood sugar, where they, I don't know, and then it was like, then we won't have carrots, and it's no, you should still just have the carrot, it's not a, it's not a hard and fast rule.

Shannon: 00:29:26

Yeah. and so much, we have to remember as much as I love, digging into the research around nutrition, but it's just that it's looking at the way people react to foods in a lab. It's not looking at how we're responding in a real world setting. And it's also not taking into account all the bio individuality that people have where, if we put. Continuous glucose monitor on all three of us, one of us might respond poorly to oatmeal while the other two do just fine. And so to make big brash statements about a food based on a study done when we know there's other health benefits to that food, can be so detrimental for people when we start to limit our diet so drastically. I feel like we do this with macronutrients, to a fault where we're like, We are going to take out all the carbohydrates or all the fats or only eat protein. And I just think we only have three of them. We only have three macro nutrients. Why are we trying to take any of them out? Like just enhance them, enhance the quality, enhance the amount, enhance the varieties. why are we taking things out when we really, we evolved to be omnivores. We ate lots of different foods. Hundreds of thousands of different types of plants and herbs and lots of protein sources, including insects and, small game and big game. we really ate this huge variety and diversity to survive to this point that we're at right now. And now we're like limiting people down to just we only eat. Beef, where we only eat chicken. I know a lot of clients that only eat chicken as their protein source or only something. So yeah, I'm like, let's not limit, let's expand, let's do lots of variety and make it more fun and make it more interesting.

Sara: 00:31:10

I learned this a long time ago and I haven't figured out a way to solve it, but I learned that when your body is tired, you actually crave more like simple sugars. Cause it's like something to do with the. The tired feeling hormones. I don't know what the science. yeah, you're exactly right. So at seven o'clock at night when I know I shouldn't be eating anymore, but I've done way, I should have done less in my day and I am exhausted. I find myself, almost in a trance just wanting to eat, chocolate chips. it's not nutritious. I know it's not, I know I shouldn't be eating that late for myself. it's doing nothing for me except for, satiating that, I'm exhausted. So is that just a matter of me just not getting myself that exhausted? Or is there something I can put in my pie hole at seven o'clock at night that will satiate that, I'm exhausted feeling?

Shannon: 00:32:06

Yeah, I would ask, first of all, I think the question is, does it happen every night? much. okay. That's good. So when it happens, because what I was gonna say, so if it's oh, once a month, like I'm not, don't stress about it. when people are having cravings at nighttime, the first thing I look at is their morning routine. Anything that's going on at night, I say your bedtime routine does not start at 7:00 PM It starts at 7:00 AM It starts when you wake up. What's going into your body at breakfast and lunch that's leading you to still be craving something at nighttime, right? It could be that you didn't get enough calories, period. Could be that you didn't get enough carbohydrates. It could be that you, Didn't get enough protein could be that you didn't get enough water throughout the day. It could be that you are actually lacking in electrolytes. It could also be you craving the magnesium. there's a lot of magnesium and chocolate. we also have serotonin levels that dip throughout the day. And sometimes we feel those cravings later, like in the afternoon, evening, I've had some clients who wake up to eat chocolate in the middle of the night because their serotonin is so low. And, sometimes, we can do things about that. increasing protein, increasing foods with tryptophan, which will lead to more serotonin in the body. So there's a number of reasons it could be happening, Sara, but it's not necessarily bad. Just use it as a cue that your body is telling you something. And, make that list of things and look at what you're eating throughout the day. But it starts at 7. AM. So if you want to curb something going on at nighttime, it's not your dinner you should start with. It's your breakfast.

Sara: 00:33:39

gosh, that was like talking to me for a second where I'm like, oh my, that's what I say to clients when something doesn't feel good. I'm like, okay, that's our red flag. Okay, let's look at it. And yeah, it's no, we got to look upstream. It's oh, we didn't just end up here magically, like something. Happened 10 steps ago to get it. Oh my god, that was that was trippy. I'm going to take as the takeaways from this conversation of let's listen to our bodies and work with them, not against them. Yes. Let's diversify putting foods in our body. And by doing that, we're gifting our future self. We are gifting by eating that healthier protein, fat, delicious, like fully packed meal of nutrients. We're giving future self that gift of showing up with more energy, feeling better. And I like, that you leaned into don't worry about how you're preparing it. Just get the vegetable in your house, just try some new things. don't zoom in so far that you stop from just doing that first step Getting that goodness into your body and taking care of yourself.

Shannon: 00:34:47

Absolutely. Yeah. And I always tell clients, I'm like, health is not like an end destination. Like we're always going to be working towards better health. It's a spectrum. And your goal is not to get from point a to point Z it's to get from point a to point B to start and hang out there until that's a habit. And then maybe you think about the next step from there, but like, it's not to get from a to Z sustainably do that. We would make ourselves totally nuts to try to take all those steps in one swoop. Take a small step today, like just go home and make a nice lunch. If you haven't had lunch yet and start with that. And you are, you're gifting your short term future self, but you're also gifting your long term future self, right? You're gifting like your 80 year old version of yourself, as well as your 3 PM version of yourself. We really got to like. But focus on 3 p. m. 7 p. m. version of you, not the 80 year old, but you are gifting that future person as well.

Sara: 00:35:42

I love that. Oh, I love it. Thank you so much. Lacey, do you have any final thoughts to?

Lacey: 00:35:47

I've just started smiling so big when you're like, just take a little step. And I'm like, yeah, we talk about that all the time.

Sara: 00:35:53

Yeah. It's great. I know. I've listened to your show. I know. I know. Nailed it. Just one. It's so true. Just one. even for me, I'm like, okay, just add one more thing into my breakfast. I don't have to revamp my whole day. I'm like, no, I'm just going to put one healthy thing into my breakfast. Add one more thing in. so I love that. Feels very doable. Thank you so much for joining us today, Shannon. It was wonderful to hear your expertise. So happy to be here.

Lacey: 00:36:20

Thanks

Shannon: 00:36:21

for having me.