Lacey: 00:00:05

Welcome to No Shame in the Home Game, the podcast that cares how your home feels, not looks. I am Lacey, your co host who is always just along for the ride, realistically, but we were here Sara, the co host that I feel like actually knows what's going on. Hi, Sara.

Sara: 00:00:23

Hi Lacey. It's so good to see

Lacey: 00:00:26

too. We were, before we started, we were talking about how, I like to fly by the seat of my pants. and I have brought Sara. Into that energy.

Sara: 00:00:35

I really like the contrast and that, yin yang, yin yang. Some people pronounce it differently. Anyways, I like that because sometimes I overthink things to the point of freezing. And I think sometimes you run into a burning building a little too fast.

Lacey: 00:00:56

Absolutely

Sara: 00:00:57

not in a critical way, so I think between the two of us, there is this, I always talk about the tortoise and the hare, like there is a beautiful balance between the two, and I've learned to embrace the flying tortoise. my wallpaper, which I got to show off to my friend this morning. my wallpaper is a perfect example of no, just dive right in people. and she too was like, I know sometimes I can't commit to things because I think about them too much. And I'm like, yeah, I can totally relate. So the laziness of things is beautiful and I've embraced

Lacey: 00:01:30

Thank you. I really appreciate that. It's been a really funny and like my perfectionism journey, that a lot of times perfectionists don't start things because they want it to be perfect. I'm like, that is not a problem I've ever had.

Sara: 00:01:44

I can relate to that. I do this thing. It's actually. Antithetical might be the right word. I'm not sure. I'll actually do something where I will research something to death and I will put in so much time that I've over calculated everything and then I'll get fatigued and then I'll jump and make a decision without using any of the research I just did because I get so impatient. But I, it's my process though. I Yeah, sometimes I do jump in, I guess, but I have to go through this cursory, like, 20 hours of research first.

Lacey: 00:02:23

I actually think this is an interesting way to start our wrap up season two, because I think this season behind the scenes, Sara and I had Such a great flow of getting things done this season and on a meta level has felt so good to us, not to speak for you, Sara, but this is something you're talking about. just hitting our stride, feeling like we know what we're doing. So I want to make sure we start off the conversation with like season two has felt amazing to make.

Sara: 00:03:00

It has, and I keep just enjoying that feeling. It hasn't dissipated. There wasn't just a moment of Oh, that's really good. Like every time I go to edit an episode, every time I go to listen or do or think about it, I get that same like satisfactory, like, that is really good. And I completely agree. And I know I've tooted my own horn to you and I'm getting better at tooting my own horn. I'm really not great at it. But when I listened to the podcast, like on my podcast player. Completely as a listener, not as an editor, not as a, the host. When I listen, I'm like, wow, this is really good advice.

Lacey: 00:03:39

Yeah, Sara, there is a reason why when we started talking about this before we ever came up with No Shame in the Home Game or anything like that, that I was like, Sara, this is bigger. We need to do something. And it's to hear you talk, about everything and bringing it down to one. I just, you're magic. I am so glad that you have gotten just a little bit of that out of this.

Sara: 00:04:03

I have, and a funny side note. So along with the wallpaper was me completely gutting my office and emptying every drawer and every closet and everything, and I've just totally thrown it all up into my hallway. And I had this moment of frustration of Oh, all this stuff. And, Oh, I got to process all this. And, Oh, but I also want to do that other project. And I actually had this moment of almost like split identity where I was like, I need Sara from no shame in the home game to step in here. I was being Sara, me, as a householder. And I was like, okay, what would Sara from No Shame say to me? I would say to myself, focus on one project at a time. It'll all happen. You can't do too many things. And I was like, oh, that feels really good. So I'll have to say, I still have lessons to learn too. Like I'm still doing all these steps myself, which I appreciate.

Lacey: 00:04:52

we all, I personally think everyone needs some Sara in their life. So I get it. Even Sara needs Sara.

Sara: 00:05:00

Even Sara needs Sara. Yes, that's so true. That is so true. I want to ask you what from season two, can you put your finger on a moment or a saying, is there anything that you think of, or is it just in totality as a package?

Lacey: 00:05:16

I think so season two, is a little bit different for me because I don't have a relationship with anybody in any of our participants. Whereas last season. Alex is one of my dearest friends. I was one of the participants, and so this season, a big takeaway for me is the ability to have that connection with somebody and see your story in theirs. So I think about, Two, two things come to mind. One with Teresa, when she was talking about doing things and I just had this moment where I'm like, Oh my gosh, I see myself in Teresa and I need to tell Teresa what I need to hear, which is there's no right way to do this, that kind of stuff. And then to hear her say back to me, I needed to hear that. I think about that regularly. I just think that, and that moment of similarity and, really one of the biggest things that I just continue to learn is that every time someone tells their story, someone else gets seen, even if it's not their exact story, even if their situation's just a little bit different, someone else feels seen. And that has made it infinitely easier for me to share my own story in that, this will help someone somewhere. I don't know who it is. A hundred people could see it and think it's dumb, but if one person sees it and thinks it's great, cool. And feel seen and validated. So I think about that. And then I think with Tyra, I had another moment like that with her, just acknowledging how far she's come and seeing the progress and that she deserves to be celebrated. those two moments really stand out to me.

Sara: 00:07:01

thank you for sharing. I love hearing that. And what you're talking about with Teresa is actually the origin story of this work that I do again for the listener who maybe hadn't heard me say it yet, I was in people's homes. The people who hired me were generally busy working moms. And I kept hearing. These stories of shame, of regret, of why can't I do ABC? Why is so and so doing this? And it was that, wait, we're all feeling shame someplace or discomfort, but we're not talking about it. And that was the whole reason, again, pulling open that curtain, opening up that front door. Let's all just admit. That there are some parts of this that we don't like, that are really hard, we were never taught how to do, and that's exactly why I wanted, Ooh, I just got goosebumps!

Lacey: 00:07:55

Yay.

Sara: 00:07:56

Because we all feel this, and like you said, by being, by recognizing yourself in someone else, we are connecting. Oh, I feel that too. Oh, I feel seen and heard. And Yes, so I agree with you, if a hundred people hear it and one person gets to walk away with a little nugget of, solace, then it's worth it because this stuff is hard.

Lacey: 00:08:19

So hard. It's so hard. And it's so personal. I think that is something else that I've really come away with is like the themes are universal, but the experience is so personal. And, I think about those, Like kind of one size fits all solutions that are out there. And I'm like, Oh, that's why this doesn't work it's cause it hasn't taken a more universal approach. for example. I'm going to be doing, book reviews, not really reviews. I like to think of more of those book reports for, different like self help and like resource type things that are out there. And I read one that's coming out soon and it's called Modern Friendship. And she does a great job of the nuts and bolts of being a friend today. But my one critique that really got into me is that it is very much from her perspective. As a straight white woman who's middle class with no kids and that, and so if that is how you identify yourself, Oh my gosh, this is a great resource for you. Now, if you're not that, will you be able to pull something out of it? Yes. But as you read it, as a mom and a sick lady, I'm like, I can't do that. That's not realistic for me. I can't do that. and so I think that Acknowledging that these systems in our homes and how our homes run and how we run our lives is so personal to our experience and our needs. And that just always needs to be at the forefront. And I think because it's so personal and because the solution for so long has been, this is the solution, not this could be the solution has really created that space for shame.

Sara: 00:10:14

yes, yeah. I'm trying to figure out how to say this. I've said this in different articles I've written about, I understand how we got here. When you put the, when you look at the pieces and you look backwards, it makes sense that we're at this point, but it's also gotten so uncomfortable that we get To change the tide and we get to change how it's done and it's going to be very uncomfortable, but the hope is the next generation doesn't have this same type of discomfort and I've never thought myself as somebody stirring the pot. I've always thought I'm only somebody who gets goes along to get along. But I really feel like this is, revolution is a strong word. It makes me think of the military. What's like a, what's like an easier word than

Lacey: 00:11:02

Uh, a movement, if you will.

Sara: 00:11:05

Oh my gosh. Gosh, it's a movement. Damn it. It was right there. This is a movement and I'm so happy and proud to be a part of it. And it's very much outside of my character, but it has, again, the discomfort in me. The discomfort and all the clients I worked with and I do, I feel like I am up here with like a little sign on a little tiny hill going, Hey everyone, guess what? We're all feeling really uncomfortable. Let's join this movement together and change shit because it really sucks.

Lacey: 00:11:40

Well, and I think too, what you just said about, making it better for the next generation, I think that's something that we tackled with Ashley's story of her figuring out how to take her organizational skills and her methods, but empowering her children to have the same outcome, but not necessarily the exact same way.

Sara: 00:12:03

Absolutely. And even with Teresa and there's been so many messages cause Teresa and I IRL. It sounds really weird coming out of my mouth because it's not like in real life We're friends and so I get an abundance of messages from Teresa highlighting how much this has impacted her life as a mom as Raising her daughter and teaching her and they're learning about the food recipes together Learning about all these things together and just like you said, yeah, hopefully when Shannon's running her own house It's gonna be so much easier for her to put these You Building blocks together and not go through, it's like we're carrying forward this story from the previous generation unknowingly, that's how I see it and we, we get to make a conscious change. If it's uncomfortable. For some people, it's not. That's fine too. I'm not trying to say everyone has to do it this way, but yeah, it's oh, it doesn't feel good. Okay, it's going to take some energy and input, but we can change the way we think about this and do things. And go forward. And again, I always say thank you to our participants and I'll say it again. I'm so thankful that they were willing to share their discomfort with the world because that's a brave thing to do.

Lacey: 00:13:27

Yeah.

Sara: 00:13:28

I always, I go back to Jenny Lawson, the author, known as the blog S and when I read her book, furiously happy, and she talked about her mental health journey and She was willing to really share some uncomfortable things that happened to her. And in doing so, she's helped so many people, including me, but she had to be brave enough to share that discomfort. And just like you said in the beginning, that's where the magic is.

Lacey: 00:13:56

Magic. Yep. I also want to share two takeaways that have tangible takeaways that have transformed my household.

Sara: 00:14:03

I'm so excited. I'm on the edge of my seat.

Lacey: 00:14:06

The salad drawer idea of Teresa's. I have taken it and I've worked with it a little bit over time, but it helped me and Joe realize like we both love a big old salad. And so what we have made that one of our, low effort dinners. We get a bag salad. That's nice and fancy. We cook some chicken breast. The kids get a deconstructed version of the salad and then we have a big salad and it was an easy, easy, easy dinner. And I'm on my own journey right now of trying to be as thoughtful with my food as possible. So it came to me at the right time and it just has been So magical. and this is where I say I didn't do a salad drawer, right? That's not what I ended up making, but it gave me the idea to start tweaking. Cause for a period of time, I was like making a chopped salad at lunch every day and it ended up just being a little too much work, but it has really enabled us to get to this place where I'm like, Oh, great. This is one of our no brainer meals that we can always have when be one of our planned meals. Thank you for getting me there, both Sara and Teresa. And the other one is, Tyra's really changed my thought process on how I declutter in that I can do it. Just a little bit at a time when I do things. and so we have a box upstairs that as I'm folding kids clothes, if I know that piece of clothing is too small, I just set it to the side and it gets put in the box. And I've recruited my husband into this. And so it has really made that processing become more micro, which has a macro impact on our house.

Sara: 00:15:53

I'm actually writing down notes because I love some of the stuff you're saying. Micro input for macro change. And I love what you said about the low effort dinner and that's that variation of good, better, best. But I actually like, low effort better because that reflects on how much effort, how much do I have left to give? I know you don't like spoons. You like to think of it as how much is in my account. It's like, how much effort is left in your account by dinnertime? Uh, not a lot. I need a low effort meal. And I'm going to say salad drawer has actually influenced me as well. I forgot how much I love, I just kind of forgot. God, and so I make up this base and I shred up purple cabbage. I love purple cabbage and I shred it up real small and then I shred up some carrots for color And then I chopped up some different types of lettuces So I always have that base ready to go and it only lasts a few days But like I'll do a big batch. So I've actually been eating a lot more salads, too

Lacey: 00:16:53

I think another part of it that, and I'm not sure why this changed my thought process of it, of salad can be easy and it also doesn't have to be. Like the healthiest salad in the world. Like it's still a good meal. if I enjoy it. So yeah. Do we have a bag Caesar salad with the full fat dressing and as much cheese as possible and croutons? Heck yeah, we do. But we made it and we enjoyed it. And guess who didn't go out and get a meal? I just, I think that mentality too, of it doesn't have to be the perfect salad. It just has to be. a salad that I enjoy eating.

Sara: 00:17:33

Yeah, you find your entry point and then you can do variations from there. Absolutely. And that's, that is beautiful. And I love that. And I like what you said to you about the micro input. I too was listening to Tyra's episode. And I too was prompted because again, in my office, I decided to empty everything. And I too felt overwhelmed. Again, sometimes I need, Host Sara to help home Sara. And I too was like, Oh no, just look at an item. Do I want to use this? Yes or no? And then I did. I had to break it down for myself and remind myself like, Oh, just have a pile of all these donation items. so I also have been processing and remembering too. Cause I love that Tyra is in a different place in her life with her kids being grown. And it's remembering that stuff piles up. And you can process it as you go, or you can process it later on down the road, but at some point it gets to be processed. And that's a choice. And nobody can tell you which one's the right one for you, but you get to decide. do you want to do a little bit of processing every day, or

Lacey: 00:18:46

I know

Sara: 00:18:46

wait until it's all piled up?

Lacey: 00:18:48

poor mother is trying to process all of her children's stuff in her house. Every once I get a message, do you want any of this stuff? And the answer's no, I don't. And I don't want to go through it because if I go through it, then I'm going to have imaginary ties to it. That if I haven't remembered it, I haven't lived at home in over 15 years. I'm not going to use it. I'm not going to keep it. I do have a memory box that has traveled with me from our houses and that kind of stuff. And so I've just decided if I think it's important enough to put in there, then that's it. That's enough.

Sara: 00:19:22

I'm going to put a call out to the universe. I would love for one of our experts in between seasons to be somebody who works with emotional attachment to items.

Lacey: 00:19:33

Interesting.

Sara: 00:19:35

by the decision making process we all go through consciously or unconsciously about keeping things and why some people can get rid of things very easily. Why some people hang on to and what's that thing I've heard about. There's a phrase for this. I think I read about it in Marie Kondo's book where. Like your mom's doing. Like instead of just getting rid of it, she's do you want this? Like it's easier to hand it off to somebody you know. what is that? We all do it. I do it. And especially when a family member passes away too, and there's so much. I want to talk to somebody who that is what they work with and I've actually read articles There is something some people their brain is wired in such a way We're getting rid of an item that has emotion is actually like physically uncomfortable to them because to them That memory is actually in the item. There's something to do with the wiring I've read two articles about it and was very fascinated So it's a different process for those people. and you see it a lot with the hoarding mentality, but there is actually something going on in their brain. I'm just,

Lacey: 00:20:45

I will say part of the reason why my mom is doing it is because she lost her mom last year and they went through a whole bunch of stuff and she has openly said, I don't want you guys to have to do that. And I'm like, first of all, Carolyn, you're not allowed to die. Please stop. But, but I get it cause they, they also have a big house that they've kept because they have grandchildren and people that come to stay with them, they have a pool. It's, it's a homestead for us at this point. And it is completely full with our stuff that she's been asking us to go through. So it isn't her responsibility. So a lot of this stuff, it's my responsibility. once again, I've put that on Carolyn. Sorry, mom. I love you.

Sara: 00:21:28

We all have to, we all get to do it. We all get to decide how we do it.

Lacey: 00:21:34

for sure. And I will say it's made me think forward of how do I want to save my children's stuff in a way that feels good to me? Cause I don't have a good answer yet, but I have been thinking about it.

undefined: 00:21:49

Mhm.

Sara: 00:21:52

Thinking back to highlights from season two, what I appreciated about Tyra is that I evolve how I do this work, the more I do it because the more I learn and every client is different. And with Tyra, I really enjoyed that she was willing to go through the emotional part because that was the unlocking. And Tyra actually left me a message like last week about this big aha moment she had that unlocked even another layer for her. Yeah. But she was stuck, like nothing was going to happen until she faced this emotional block and now it's just clicking. And I always knew there was an emotional piece with everyone when we do the work. But she really crystallized that for me, that, and it's not always, with Ashley, it was very much just perfunctory, the, the steps, it was not an emotional block, she knew exactly what she wanted to be done, and so that's great too, and that's always a part of it, and even for Teresa, she came in with that heavy weight, could you feel it with Teresa and Tyra, that first meeting, And I don't know if the listeners can sense it as much because it's just audio, but when we're doing video and we can see the person, the way they talk is heavy and the sentences are a little bit more clipped. And when they, when there's a relaxation, there's just, the body is relaxed. The conversation flows a little bit differently, but yeah, there's this cloak of like, I'm still trying to pretend like nothing's wrong, like everything's okay because I don't really want to admit how much it's uncomfortable.

Lacey: 00:23:28

my, my moment that I am thinking of with Teresa in episode two, where I'm like, hey, can I chime in? I, that was one of the first time, cause you've mentioned that before, Oh, you've changed the way you've changed. That's the first time I was like, Oh, her entire being just changed when she was talking about these expectations that she has for herself. There's something there. And that was the first time I was able to really see it in action, and call it out. So I'm learning things too.

Sara: 00:24:00

We're all learning!

Lacey: 00:24:01

so I'm a communication person, right? Communication's my thing. I talk to people, I'm usually very intensely paying attention. So I would have thought that would have been something that I noticed. but now it has become something that I'm clued in a bit more on and to say Hey. you changed when you did that. What can you, do you know what's going on there?

Sara: 00:24:24

Well, and I think that's, really important about when I ask people about their origin story. I'm not trying to be a secret psycho stalker. I don't want to know all of your like deepest, darkest secrets, but I think it helps when Teresa's origin story, there was very much this different mentality of her parents generation of how the mom was, quote unquote, supposed to be in the kitchen. And even Tyra. she was very clear about her mom saying, clean as you go, clean as you go, oh, you're not very clean, are you? There was very much some stuff from that origin story. And that's what's embedded in our emotional DNA that we get to examine. I think I always tell the story about my friend who was really hard on herself for not having freshly prepared homemade meals every night on the table for her family, because that's what she grew up with. But she works two days out of the home. She has three kids. Her husband often travels for a week at a time. And her kids are going to all these different activities and I'm like, but that doesn't, that's not the same. you can't compare those two, but she had this expectation because that's what she saw growing up. I was like, yeah, but you're, again, going back to that, everyone's situation's different. you don't have the, do that on Sunday when you're not working or traveling. don't think about doing that on the day you worked 10 hours out of the house and you've got to get to these two different activities. Come on. Those are serial nights. let's be honest. We all have serial nights.

Lacey: 00:25:57

Yeah. Are you doing this for the outcome or are you doing it because you feel like you need to do the task?

Sara: 00:26:06

that is so key. Yeah. Are you doing it because, yeah, how it looks and how it feels, man. cause it looks like you're performing the way your parents did or because it feels like this is what works for you and your sanity and how much effort you have left in your account. Yeah. Yeah.

Lacey: 00:26:25

Yes.

Sara: 00:26:26

I feel I really feel like I'm growing too. not, again, two different Saras. Who's Sara? I feel like I'm getting better with every client I

Lacey: 00:26:37

Well, let's just say kudos to Sara for each of the participants. She did a solo episode and I am so proud of you because. I don't think you would have felt like you would be able to do that last year. I you

Sara: 00:26:50

thank you Yes. Technology kudos. I accept those wholeheartedly. Lacey is our tech department. She is everything IT. That is not me. And yeah. And then also growing as home, Sara, like relaxing on, I still carry that shame and those expectations and all those things. And I still feel like. I'm growing, which I appreciate as well. And I love Lacey. When you tell me things that you've learned, there was a moment where you said something about home CEO and what, how it has helped you. And I was like, really? And you're like, yes. And I'm like, Oh, this really helps people. Like I was truly shocked, but I mean, glad, that's why we're doing it. But then to actually get that connection and that feedback. Feedback. I was like, Oh, wow. It really helped her household.

Lacey: 00:27:39

I, yes, all the time, literally you have, we work on a project and I, I've really been rethinking my meal prep because we just redid the 10 steps to, meal planning and I, it has been making me noodle our, how we do things. And so literally I told Joe the other night, I'm like, we're going to write down our non negotiable. Like easy meals and we're gonna, we're gonna start having a system. And I even have been building something in Notion to even do that. And I showed it to Joe the other night and he's like, why aren't we using this? I'm like, yeah, I know. Right. I have a lot of tweaks to make, but thank you for you to say that is a big deal to me.

Sara: 00:28:18

okay. Okay. I'm all a flutter people. If you could see me, I'm

Lacey: 00:28:22

You are.

Sara: 00:28:23

I love, don't get me wrong. One is not higher than the other. They're two different categories of appreciation. I love that Lacey is utilizing it and it's making her life easier. But to know that Joe said that I'm going to be in the clouds all day long. That Joe, practical, no holds barred Joe, I say what's exactly on my mind, Joe.

Lacey: 00:28:46

Yeah.

Sara: 00:28:47

that packs a punch, people.

Lacey: 00:28:48

It does. Why are we

Sara: 00:28:50

that? Oh, and I will tell you again with Teresa and the food stuff, we still going back and forth and some of the frustrations, and I don't know if it was in episode three or not, but I mentioned a communication center. Because I said, like, why is this, does your family even know what time dinner is or how they can help? And she's been sending me pictures. She's been using the communication center. Healthy snacks and she'll list them. Dinner is gonna be this at this time. And like she started using it too to say, if her husband's working out of the office. Or out of town and if her daughter has some activity, so now everyone's on the same page and there's not that mist of confusion. I'm hungry. When are we eating? Where is everyone? and she's this has really been helpful. And I'm so excited that again, I'm like, Oh my gosh, yes, this is helping people.

Lacey: 00:29:43

Yeah, she's giving up that gatekeeper, role and giving other people keys to get in so she doesn't have to be there.

Sara: 00:29:50

Again, home CEO. We don't have to do it all. We got, we get to like share, hold all of this information and the process with everyone else in the house.

Lacey: 00:30:01

Agreed. This stuff is magic.

Sara: 00:30:03

We've been putting out a lot of joy. Lacey is giving out very specific compliments to people on threads and Instagram. And it's beautiful. And she's been sharing so much joy and getting joy. And I've been getting joy. And yeah, this season two has brought me so much joy and there's so much magic and joy. And I feel like I just want to have a bag of it and I can just sprinkle it. I'm like, come on everyone, feel the joy, feel the magic.

Lacey: 00:30:30

so joy ripples is something that you already had before we started the joyful support movement. And it really is the goal of everything that we do. The idea is that if your life can be a little bit easier, you can have more room for joy. And then you go out into the world with that joy and give it to somebody else and they give it to somebody else. And I just. I, in the past three weeks have seen our joy ripples be rippling. It makes me so happy. It makes me so happy. Literally one of the people I hyped on threads was like, he like summarized the joyful support movement and the joy ripple. And I think I tagged you in the post. I was like, Oh, this is exactly what my business partner and I are doing. It's called the joyful support movement. And that's why we're doing it.

Sara: 00:31:21

I I love that. I'm so happy. And I have to give credit, the Joy Ripple, Teresa and I mentioned our friend and coach, Erin. It started with her. When I was working with her, trying to figure out the work I was doing, why I was doing it. She actually, transformational coach. And she was the center of the Joy Ripple for me. She's like, I want every woman to be doing exactly what they want to be doing in life and feel empowered and confident. So that then they can turn around and help somebody else. And I was like, yeah, I love that. So she's the center of my Joy Ripple. And then I came off of her. And then I've been spreading, and then spreading it to you. And then, if we can all just ripple out 1 percent of joy. Yeah, I've always been like overly, not, Oh, I'm not going to criticize. I was going to say overly optimistic, but that's not right. I've always had this nugget inside of me of that. if we're all just a little bit kinder, I gave a high school speech at my graduation. And do you know the starfish story? So for listeners, you don't know the starfish parable. There was this old man and this little kid on this beach and there were all these starfish that had washed up and the tide was going out and the little child was picking up the starfish and throwing it back into the water and then you take another step and throw another one in the water and the old man came up and said, I don't know why you're doing that, you can't possibly save them all and the child picked one up and threw it in the water and said, I don't know why you're doing that. But I saved that one. that was my whole graduation speech was just that optimistic, let's just do what we can. We don't, it's not about a hundred percent. It's just do what you can and put it out there in the world. And I'm so excited that we're doing that.

Lacey: 00:33:10

I had this moment yesterday, because I was making Jill do my, hype and compliment videos with me. And I just had this moment where I was like, he probably thinks I'm so silly that this is this is me doing work today. Like this, I have made this part of my work, To Get this out in the world because it's meeting the goals of our organization, like all these different things. and then I had this moment where I was like, Oh my gosh, I get to do this. Oh, I made this my job. She's not making that much money yet, but Hey, it's my job and I like it.

Sara: 00:33:47

I had the same thing. My husband was asking me what I was doing today, and I was like, I'm going on a walk with my friend, and then I'm recording with Lacey, and yeah, I had that thing in my head, like, where you put things in buckets, and I was like, it's in the work bucket, but it's really in the, like, this is filling my cup bucket, and I was like, that's so weird, they're in the same bucket.

Lacey: 00:34:05

absolutely. Absolutely.

Sara: 00:34:08

It's beautiful. I do want to give a personal shout out to one of our listeners. Mr. Jim, he's my friend. He has been listening to our podcast, even though. It's not, he's not our typical demographic, but he is such a supporter and such a friend, and he's been listening, and he actually knows Teresa. So that's been like a fun little, we all used to live in the same town. I almost said city. It's Such a town. It's such a small town. and so he's been listening while he walks in the morning. And I just want to say, thank you, Jim, for being a supporter. Oh, and he actually has a live concert on YouTube tonight and I'm going to be watching him. Yes. I'm very

Lacey: 00:34:51

a gym.

Sara: 00:34:52

some, he's a lifelong musician and photographer And I think it's bringing him joy, even though he's not our target audience,

Lacey: 00:34:59

I mean, we are delightful though. So

Sara: 00:35:02

that, that is true. I'm not gonna argue with that.

Lacey: 00:35:07

no argument. No, that's just a fact. We're allowed to say, objective facts and that's one of them. Thank you.

Sara: 00:35:13

Oh my gosh, everyone, if you come hang out with us in Joyful Support Movement, it's a lot of this. You're gonna get a lot of this. You get to share not only the things that are going on in your life that are not pleasant, you get to just get delightful comments like this

Lacey: 00:35:29

You can also vote on whether a hot dog is a sandwich or not.

Sara: 00:35:33

Gross. I don't know who said yes to

Lacey: 00:35:36

It was me and me and my mom.

Sara: 00:35:38

Are you serious on that? How is it a

Lacey: 00:35:41

How is it not? It's bread surrounding, meat specifically. And there,

Sara: 00:35:48

Is a hamburger a sandwich? It's its own thing.

Lacey: 00:35:53

it's a subset. So not all hamburger, wait, no, not all sandwiches are hamburgers, but all hamburgers are sandwiches.

Sara: 00:36:01

Okay, so I love sayings like that, so now I don't feel as angry, and now I'm gonna have to ponder my stance.

Lacey: 00:36:09

what I want you to do is go Google, it's called the sandwich alignment chart. Okay. so the two accesses are, like composition. So how it's made and then the other one's ingredients. And like each box is a little bit of each of the, like each of those. And I am almost completely chaotic. I just can't get to the point where I say a Pop Tart is a sandwich, but I almost get there. taco, choco, taco, whatever that is. Is that a sandwich?

Sara: 00:36:40

I don't know. So when I get really mad in my house, I talk really quietly and calmly because I'm so mad. I want to, when you said I can't get on board with a Pop Tart being a sandwich, the thought of a Pop Tart being a sandwich made me want to burn everything to the ground. That shouldn't be a sentence that exists.

Lacey: 00:37:03

it really all depends on your criteria and that's why I love these kinds of conversations because you get to see other people's criteria. Some people, the ingredients are important. A sandwich is made up of meat, cheeses, vegetables, lettuce, between two slices of bread. But then you, and then you can start going and be like, so an ice cream sandwich is not a sandwich. Cause it's not those ingredients. and then you can go the other way where it's is a taco a sandwich because it's those ingredients between two pieces of, not between the, I will say someone said they're like level is the bun part or the same, if that's connected, it is no longer a sandwich.

Sara: 00:37:45

I was just thinking about pita pockets,

Lacey: 00:37:47

I would still call that a sandwich. in spirit, is a sandwich that

Sara: 00:37:50

I was going to say I'm comfortable with using the phrase sandwich adjacent. So I'm, I love these conversations too because they're so inconsequential. It doesn't matter, but I love debating something that doesn't matter because it's fun and it's, hopefully not going to hurt

Lacey: 00:38:07

you get to see people's thought processes. it's the same thing of, is our instructions rules. That's butted heads on our instructions.

Sara: 00:38:19

to talk really quietly and calmly so I don't break anything in my office. That is more, okay, that actually is more reflective of how I enjoy rules. They make me feel comforted.

Lacey: 00:38:36

I do too. I do too.

Sara: 00:38:38

No, you do not like to be

Lacey: 00:38:40

Well, I don't like to be told what to do, but I like rules. See those are two different things to me. So rules are something that we all have to follow. It gives order and structure. Telling me what to do is me having to do something. Those are two different things in my mind.

Sara: 00:38:59

Okay, so the manual says. In order for this structure to stand, you have to put these screws in this location. But you're saying that's not a rule? That's just like a suggestion?

Lacey: 00:39:15

If I don't do it, I'm not going to get in trouble.

Sara: 00:39:18

oh, okay. This is the crux. The consequence. Oh, so to me the consequence is, if you don't put the screws there, the structure won't

Lacey: 00:39:27

You don't know that. How do you know that.

Sara: 00:39:30

Hold it up to take a drink of water.

Lacey: 00:39:32

Oh, you remember in the beginning where we talked about our two approaches to things, I think we're seeing that come together in another place.

Sara: 00:39:40

It's so funny, I usually feel like Lacey is like contemporary, but in this moment of discussing rules, I feel very maternal, and I feel like you're being a child who's like being sassy. I feel like I'm dealing with Iris right now, you're like, it doesn't

Lacey: 00:39:56

I yes. She's the kid that I'm like, don't lay there. And so then she'll lay right next to where I told her not to lay. She's I'm not laying there. And I'm like, geez, you, that was not the spirit of what I asked you to do. So yes,

Sara: 00:40:10

That's not the spirit of what I asked you to

Lacey: 00:40:14

she's going to be a little lawyer, but truly some, something could still function if you put in the screw in a different way. So again, that's where I say, not a rule. It is. the way those people designed it to be made for sure, but that doesn't make it a rule.

Sara: 00:40:32

Okay. Okay. I'm warming up. I'm, I am, I'm adapting a growth mindset and I am loosening, I'm not saying I agree, but I am saying I'm willing to view this differently and try it on.

Lacey: 00:40:47

think as I'm saying this, there is an element of rules impact more than just you. Rules impact other people. And so if you don't follow the rules, it's going to impact somebody else. this is for me particularly, whereas. Instructions. If I don't follow the instructions, that's on me, man. Yeah, I did that. That's a choice I made. Now, will somebody get hurt if a chair falls apart? Yes. But again, it wasn't that I specifically did something that caused them harm or,

Sara: 00:41:21

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I'm warming up. I'm warming up to seeing things differently.

Lacey: 00:41:27

Instructions are best practices. They're not rules.

Sara: 00:41:30

I can actually get behind that.

undefined: 00:41:33

Mhm. Mhm.

Sara: 00:41:36

Okay. I am in agreement.

Lacey: 00:41:39

Did I just change your mind?

Sara: 00:41:41

You did. And this goes back to how much I've learned from you about communication. And how words can take on different meanings in different contexts to different people. I was actually just talking to Sara. We were discussing pops of joy and different questions to ask. And I was even saying to her with some people, maybe you don't use the word joy with them because maybe that word means something different. We talked about how gratitude is the cousin of joy, and I said, Oh yeah, I've learned so much from Lacey about how important communication is and what you're saying and how you're saying it. And so it comes back to that.

Lacey: 00:42:19

communication is at the foundation of everything.

Sara: 00:42:22

it is. And I am, I am understanding that in so many ways.

Lacey: 00:42:29

we do need to do what we're grateful for. Speaking of. Gratitude is the cousin of joy.

Sara: 00:42:35

Would you like to start? Or do you want me to start?

Lacey: 00:42:38

I have too much in my mind. Isn't that beautiful?

Sara: 00:42:42

You can never have too

Lacey: 00:42:44

But that I cannot pick just one. That's how grateful I am feeling right now.

Sara: 00:42:50

But how meta is that? That is your joy. Your thankful, your moment of gratitude is I have so much to be thankful for, I can't pick just one. That is beautiful.

Lacey: 00:43:01

I'm thankful. Yesterday was Joe and I's anniversary and we got to spend a little extra time together. I'm thankful for our eight years of marriage and our kids that came out of it. I'm thankful for the advice people gave us on our wedding day. I recorded a video about that and I, it's a video I cried in. So that's fun. I'm thankful my parents, this is a fun one. So my brother had a lawnmower that caught on fire and My parents ended up taking it and fixing it and they brought it to us yesterday. So now we have a riding lawnmower that we didn't have before. So thankful for that. We did literally nothing for it again. Cannot sing Bob and Carolyn's praises enough.

Sara: 00:43:42

I'm actually tempted to move to Ohio just to be closer to Bob and Carolyn. That is how strongly I feel about

Lacey: 00:43:47

Yeah. I'm thankful for, my son had his kindergarten evaluation yesterday and he was so excited about starting school and it went well. I just, I, there is so much I'm thankful for right now and grateful for. I didn't even get into all of my joy, compliments and hyping either the amount of joy and gratitude I have for that. Whew.

Sara: 00:44:12

Those are fun. People listening, if you want a five minute like happiness bump, go check out Lacey Shares on Threads. I loved reading how happy people were getting that you were just doing it. And it is just, it's so joyful. It's just pure, clean joy. Unadulterated joy. I am thankful. I took a walk with my friend this morning and. Because I really like structure and organization. I've thought about my life in three compartments. I have my work compartment. I have my home compartment, which is really me being a wife and a mom. And then I have my personal department, which is me as an individual, not as a wife or a mom. And I've realized that in my week, and I can do this now that my child is older and more independent, but I've realized I need all three of those. To be balanced. So I've been making a very intentional choice every week to do something that's just for me. It has nothing to do with managing my home, nothing to do with work. so taking a walk with my friend has been one of those choices and, Oh, it's just, it's like that pressure release valve. It just feels so good to do something that's just for me. So that is, My gratitude. And then actually, like I said, doing this recording with you, it's the work bucket, but it's also for me. So it's double dipping. Oh, I

Lacey: 00:45:44

Heck yeah. That's I like to think of that as being strategic with your time. You're getting more out of your time. Look at you. Productivity.

Sara: 00:45:53

thankful. And as soon as we get our sponsorships rolling and We will, because We will, then we'll be getting paid just to have awesome conversations, which is the dream.

Lacey: 00:46:10

Ah, yes.

Sara: 00:46:12

it's the dream. And so let's do a call out to the universe sponsors who want to sponsor joy. And if you don't want to sponsor joy,

Lacey: 00:46:22

What are you doing?

Sara: 00:46:23

What are you doing?

Lacey: 00:46:24

Sounds like a bad move. PR move to me.

Sara: 00:46:26

it's like when politicians name a bill, something that seems like you would, if you voted no against that bill, you're somehow like the worst person in the world. How could you not want to sponsor joy? what's, come on. What is your mission statement if you don't want to sponsor joy?

Lacey: 00:46:40

feel like maybe insurance companies. Actually, no, if they sponsor joy, less accidents will happen probably, and they will less payout. yep. Yep.

Sara: 00:46:51

I'm trying to think of companies that wouldn't want to sponsor Joy. We could be

Lacey: 00:46:54

I know. would a funeral home want to sponsor joy?

Sara: 00:46:59

The funeral I want to have, yes. Crying, wearing black, no. I want to party. Is there a party funeral home?

Lacey: 00:47:08

I don't know, but there should be. if people have listened to the sharing the middle episodes with my cousin, Al, we talk in it about how we've had so much death in our life that I have very clear, instructions that I've given since it's 18 years old, I'm like, okay, rule number one, you don't have to wear black. What I want you to do is wear what you feel good in. That could be your wedding dress. That could be your prom gown. That could be your pajamas. I don't care. I want you to feel good. Second of all, there has to be upbeat music. No sad music. Nope. Nope. No sad music here, you know? and, you have to tell your favorite stories of me because I want you all to feel good, but I still need to be the center of attention. Okay.

Sara: 00:47:54

Wait, can I do mine? Have you seen those videos where people are in those inflatable dinosaur things at like funny places? Okay. If it's comfortable and possible, I want everyone to wearing some kind of dinosaur get up. I want a DJ playing all my favorite music, the upbeat dance type of music. Yeah, I want, so I want a room full of dancing dinosaurs. And then yes, I want people to tell their favorite stories about me that made them laugh. But then break it up with some dancing and then come back. so I'm like just picturing like this room of dinosaurs, like just having a rave.

Lacey: 00:48:27

And I just want to say crying is still okay. feel your feelings. I'm, this is not me saying, don't be sad that I'm gone or whatever that is. Feel your feelings. But just do it while you're dancing to Backstreet Boys, cause that should be one of the songs being played. So

Sara: 00:48:48

way Do you want a funeral with the Backstreet Boys and lip syncing? Then you want the Joyful Support Funeral Home.

Lacey: 00:48:55

you want a funeral?

Sara: 00:48:57

Damn, it was right there the whole time. I can't, this is why you're the communications expert. Like when I, this is a bookend at the very beginning when I was like, I don't want to say revolution. What do I say? And you're like, movement? It was right there. It was so

Lacey: 00:49:13

Our Funeral Home will be coming soon.

Sara: 00:49:16

That seems like a great

Lacey: 00:49:17

I do too. I love it. I love everything about it. Thank you, Sara.

Sara: 00:49:22

Thank you, Lacey.